Posted on May 18, 2023.
The indie publishing gold rush is dead… and the golden age is beginning. Becca Syme shares how we can use our strengths as writers to create a successful subscription and writing career. We are so excited and grateful to have Becca’s wisdom and presence with us :).
Becca’s Links:
Write Better Faster Academy: https://betterfasteracademy.com/
Becca Syme’s Subscription: https://www.patreon.com/beccasyme
Subscription Resources:
Join the Six-Figure Subscription Author Accelerator: https://learn.subscriptionsforauthors.com/subscriptions-for-authors-accelerator
#32 Episode Outline:
0:00:00 Introduction
0:03:17 The Clifton Strengths for Author Subscriptions
0:06:32 Focusing on What Works for You
0:13:05 Making Your Publishing Business Sustainable
0:17:45 The Transition to the Golden Age of Publishing
0:23:52 Creating a Sustainable Subscription
0:32:12 When you should quit your subscription
0:38:18 Why readers join subscriptions
0:48:47 Investing for the Long Term as an Author
#32 Episode Transcript:
Michael Evans: [00:00:00] Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of the Subscriptions for Authors podcast, and this one is a big one. Such an exciting episode because we have none other than Becca signed with us to talk all about the golden age of publishing. Wow. She’s been someone who I have just. Loved her work, and I know so many of you listening love her work because she’s probably been up to this point our most requested guests, which by the way, just a side note, if you have any guests that you want us to bring onto the podcast, let us know.
Michael Evans: Email us link is in the description to our email. Let us know in the Facebook group. We want to hear what guests you want to have on, but Becca is just a tight end and has just incredible insights for us all about. How we can create a subscription that is sustainable, how we can play to our strengths as a writer and specifically as a subscription author.
Michael Evans: And also thinking about what kinds of different subscription business models we have [00:01:00] and what kinds of strengths. Our best for those specific models, for those specific rewards you might wanna offer. And then we get into talking all about the future of publishing and really this future that is true right now.
Michael Evans: And that has been true for the last couple of years, and we’re gonna get into that. But it’s all about the gold rush in publishing, dying, and the golden age rising. And these new rules have some big consequences for all of us as authors. And Becca Seim. Is an amazing guide for us as we navigate these new waters and ultimately try and take a few steps forward in our author career and making more money, having a great time, and making meters happy.
Michael Evans: So huge. Thank you to Becca for being here. We’re gonna get right into this interview, but before we officially dive in, I just wanna say that if you’re looking to set a prescription yourself, the place to do it is on Reem. Reem is launched. Reem is live, and it’s subscription platform by fiction authors, four fiction authors.
Michael Evans: It’s got a lot of awesome things about it, and you can create an account totally for [00:02:00] free and go check it out yourself. You can begin uploading your stories. You can check out other authors on the platform and see if it’s a place that you’d like to have as a home for readers that you’d like to hopefully make some money from subscriptions.
Michael Evans: So check that out in the link in the description. And then of course, if you’re not yet a part of the Facebook group subscriptions for authors, you should join. There’s over 2,400 of us in there now. It’s wild and it’s been such a great time. But Becca, If you’re listening to this, thank you for coming on.
Michael Evans: This is an amazing interview and I can’t wait for y’all to listen to it right now.
Michael Evans: Becca, I am so excited for this because you might be our number one most requested guest ever. So I am,
Becca Syme: yeah, no, literally no pressure though. Like zero, no pressure. Just laying that out there. But
Michael Evans: no this is gonna be really fun because we’re gonna talk all about how authors can utilize their strengths [00:03:00] to build a great subscription, and knowing which direction to even take it in.
Michael Evans: Because as having a subscription yourself with basically a thousand people on it, which is wild. How much goes into this and how many different directions you can take it.
Michael Evans: So I would just wanna open up by asking you. Are there assertive strengths that would do well with subscriptions or wouldn’t do well with subscriptions?
Michael Evans: When we think generally about author subscriptions.
Becca Syme: So I think subscriptions thankfully can work for a ton of personalities of people, but I do think there are certain people who would benefit from them more than others because of the gatekeeping, right? Like the, there are certain strengths that are very Public uncomfortable, right?
Becca Syme: Where they don’t like social media. They don’t want to have their words everywhere for everyone to read. Like they wanna have a place that’s just for their people. And actually when I do presentations on who should use which, like which [00:04:00] types I say there are certain people like high Relators can really benefit from this especially.
Becca Syme: And then some of the introverts like high in election, a lot of the thinking strengths, stuff like that where the actual creator will feel much more comfortable knowing that there are gates around who gets to read their content and who doesn’t. And then it’s easier for them to think about all of these people have chosen to be here, like they want my stuff.
Becca Syme: And so it’s easier for them to share. And then there’s the interesting turn on that where there definitely are some strengths. That are uncomfortable asking people for money. In exchange for something that they do. And so a lot of what we do in coaching around subscription services is okay, but if they agree to this this isn’t for everybody.
Becca Syme: And I think that’s maybe the biggest thing to say about if I’m an author who’s gonna use the subscription service, this isn’t for a hundred percent of my fans. This is not the same as at least the one that I [00:05:00] use where there’s basically no free option to follow. So it’s not it’s much more, I.
Becca Syme: For paid subscribers. And I say like you, if you can think about this, like what you’re offering people is an opportunity to be closer to you if they want to, but most people will not choose this and they won’t feel compelled to choose it. And that often makes that personality a person feel better about using it cuz they’re like, oh, okay, so I’m not trying to strong harm people into pay me money.
Becca Syme: Nope. This is an opportunity for people to get more content from you if they want it and everyone else will self-select out just naturally. But there are definitely some strengths things to consider when you’re talking about how might I as a person benefit from using subscriptions. There’s The personality that would benefit from it more and then the okay, we might have to talk about how this will be like the most effective, cuz there’s some resistance for sure.
Becca Syme: From certain personalities. Yeah.
Michael Evans: That’s, that makes a lot of sense. And it gets me thinking about [00:06:00] connecting almost the different subscription business models that you can have with Yeah. What I’ve loved you talking about recently, which is first of all golden age of publishing. You might be one of the only people who’s like sharing something that’s optimistic, yet aware that times are changing, which is just beautiful.
Michael Evans: And you talk about three specific Golden Age business models. You have product driven platforms, author slash personality driven platforms, and then world building based platforms.
Michael Evans: And I’m curious, as you think about these three golden age business models and then try and put those business models onto a successful subscription.
Michael Evans: How should each of these authors, who’s utilizing maybe one of these business models more than another one, think about their subscription?
Becca Syme: Yeah. The. Product based or sort of book related, primarily book related, which is where the majority of us start. Like the majority of people who eventually get to either a person based or a world based platform, start off in just like writing books and creating content.
Becca Syme: Those are gonna be the type of platform [00:07:00] for subscription models where you’re primarily doing books, right? Like you’re either delivering chapters over and over again and then boxing those chapters up into a book and giving it to them, or you’re giving them free content ahead of time. And that’s the primary model that works the best for those audiences because for me, When I think about why I divide those up, it’s because of what the audience wants from the author.
Becca Syme: And I think a lot of us when we approach business models, we’re like, what’s the best for me? What do I want as an author? But I heard this really great metaphor from somebody once, and I can’t remember who it was. I wish I could quote them cuz it was so brilliant. But they were talking about.
Becca Syme: How the market responds in economics. And basically it was you can build a great surfboard, but you can’t make a wave happen. Like you have to respond to the wave. You can’t create the wave. And that to me is I can make a great platform. I can [00:08:00] build a great world. I can, be a person people wanna engage with, but I can’t force people to want to be consuming my content.
Becca Syme: Like I ha I have to on some level respond to what is there in terms of the wave of the audience response. So I think a lot of us who start off in like a product base where we’re just writing books and then we realize, oh, people want more of me or people want more from me, or people want more of this world.
Becca Syme: And then that can shift your product creation a little bit in terms of your subscription model. Cuz I do think some of us. A lot of authors want a world based platform, right? Like we want people to escape into our world the way we wanna escape into our world. But the bottom line is, if the readers don’t want it, then the content is just gonna be uncons consumable.
Becca Syme: You’re gonna put everything out there and no one’s gonna consume it. So the primary reason I think, for me, for talking about each of those models is to remind us that it [00:09:00] is not us who’s in charge of the model that we have. If you do not have a platform who’s responding to your world based content and it doesn’t make you excited to create it.
Becca Syme: Cause if it makes you excited to create it, then make it like that. That’s amazing. It gives you energy, pennies, go for it. But if your goal is to sell the content, And the readers don’t want it, then spending time creating it is not worth your time. Which is why, again, like I tell a lot of people, don’t be on social media if you don’t like doing it.
Becca Syme: Because if you don’t wanna give it to them and they don’t want it from you, then no one needs it. We don’t need a whole bunch of content just for the sake of content. And so many of us struggle with saying no to things. And so my goal in being able to separate these out is to say it’s okay to say no to doing everything.
Becca Syme: It’s okay to say no to direct sales or to social media or to whatever [00:10:00] base, primarily on do I have the energy to do it and is it gonna benefit my readers? Rather than just, are people doing it and making money at it? Of course they are, people are making money at everything, but that has no relevance to whether it’ll work for me or not.
Becca Syme: I love that. I think we and Michael were talking about something like the last week, and it was just like that, like we were talking about how you can go on social media and see, or like just Facebook groups and see hey, all these authors are doing all these different things.
Becca Syme: And I fall into something where I’m like, I need to do all of that. And it’s really hard to step back and be like, I don’t need to do all of that. I don’t even wanna do it. It’s, but I have that mindset like, I wanna make more money. But at the same time yeah, it’s hard. This is why I talk so much about intuition, right?
Becca Syme: Because so much of our intuition is actually telling us what we should be doing, and we’re not listening to it so I make these grids called author Success Alignment grids, right? Where it’s here’s a [00:11:00] continuum of a behavior and then there’s four continuums, and here’s all the red zones where if you fall into this red zone, don’t do this thing because it’s just not worth your time.
Becca Syme: And one of them is, should I have multiple social media platforms? And all of the red zones are like, I’m super private, I hate people, I don’t like social media. And people are like no, but I have to do it. I’m like, no, you don’t though. Like the statistics of conversion on social media posts are so dismal and the, all of the social media platforms are packed with people creating content that if you’re creating content and you fall in the red zone on all of those things, the likelihood of you actually converting people because of them is so low it is not worth your time. But we do not ever question whether we should do things or not based on anything other than our other people having success doing it while other people are having success winning the lottery.
Becca Syme: Are you gonna buy lottery tickets like this? This is the thing that is so frustrating to me as a person [00:12:00] who’s Do we not see that? Most of this doesn’t work for anybody. Like most of what we do is not working for 99% of the people who are doing it, and yet we’re so focused on the 1% it’s working for that we miss the fact that our alignment is probably not in that place.
Becca Syme: And we just get so caught up in like Emilia said, the desire to make more money is driving us, but instead of listening to our intuition or instead of listening to our alignment, all we’re doing is watching Facebook groups to see what other people are doing. That’s
Michael Evans: it’s hard cuz I’m like with you 1000%, like you’re right.
Michael Evans: But I’m curious, just especially if all of your coaching with writers, what your advice would be. If someone’s cuz it, I can listen to you, I can say, you’re right. I know everything you’re saying, but then. Push comes to shove, it’s, 10:00 PM and you get home from work. You fed the kids you wrote for your hour in the day, and you maybe hit your word count, you maybe didn’t, but you’re now sitting there and [00:13:00] you’re thinking about all the things you need to do to try and actually again, make this dream a reality.
Michael Evans: And then you’re scrolling through your phone feeling that stress, and that just is the daily cycle. How do you break that? How do you actually give yourself the space to let your intuition breathe?
Becca Syme: So first of all, don’t pick up the phone, like that’s number one, because that’s the problem, right? Like the problem is that we feel uncertain or insecure.
Becca Syme: And instead of finding another way to produce security, so here’s a for instance. The, I need to make more money right now because I have to pay my mortgage and my sales are going down. Then the unfortunate option is that you probably need to get another job, or you probably need to find a way to make money.
Becca Syme: If the mortgage is due tomorrow or next week, and I, my sales are going down, you need to go drive DoorDash or do Uber or do something to get. Through the month [00:14:00] because doing a Shopify store is not going to make the mortgage payment for most of us. Again, like the, for most of us, that is the case and we’re not producing security from other places because we’re so afraid that if we do that, we’re gonna lose this opportunity, which is why I talk about the fact that the gold rush is over.
Becca Syme: So much about our golden age of publishing decision making process has to be about sustainability in this industry. And for many of us, sustainability is going to look like having a part-time job or having a spouse who makes money to support the business while we get the business off the ground.
Becca Syme: Because again, you can build a great surfboard, but you can’t make a wave. And the reason that is so important to me is that if the books are not selling, if the results are not there, Throwing all of the infrastructure in the world at a platform is not necessarily gonna [00:15:00] make you more money. Whereas if you’re seeing that there’s growth there, that’s a totally different thing, right?
Becca Syme: If you’re coming home and having fed the kids and it’s 10:00 PM and you’ve already written, I would ask, can you write another hour first? That would be my first question is, can we not worry about the platform unless you, the platform requires it. Can we instead work on the book? That’s the first question for me always is the writing is primary, but then the next question is if the sales are not coming because the market is saturated, because I haven’t written the right book at the right time, and none of these things are evidence of failure by the way, like that’s the important part is that so many of us look at our sales and we see a low sales as evidence that we’ve somehow failed at this business, but this business is not a.
Becca Syme: Succeed and fail by normal standards of hard work ethic business. It is a speculative business. It’s more like Vegas than it is like McDonald’s. And [00:16:00] so we have to be willing to look at the long-term impact of our work in a different way. Where 10:00 PM at night on Facebook is not the time to be making long-term sustainability decisions.
Becca Syme: 10:00 PM at night is time to go to bed, right? N unless you’re a night writer. And then 10:00 PM is time to write. But for the majority of us, it’s that we feel that lack of security and instead of reminding ourselves like, this is a long game though I can always succeed, there’s always a possibility for me to find I have a better thought process at eight in the morning than I do at 10 at night.
Becca Syme: Like the. Danger is that we’re making decisions based primarily out of fear and not out of like security and logic. And I would rather see us not pick up the phone at night or not open Facebook or go on the computer. Yeah. Which nobody wants to hear. Nobody wants to hear that. But [00:17:00] also that’s the way to sanity you guys.
Becca Syme: That’s the way to sanity.
Michael Evans: This shift in mindset is it’s really big. And I think we, we’ve now mentioned the word golden age multiple times, but I’d love to hear you actually like, just briefly define what you consider the golden age of publishing. Because I still can feel gold rush Michael, talk about myself feeling so stressed, writing a book a month, doing the Facebook ads and the Amazon ads.
Michael Evans: Basically just feeling if I didn’t get my breakout in the store now. That we were past this early adoption curve, that the global market would open up and that it would all be done. But this was in 2019 past what you already say. Basically, golden Age was already beginning. Gold Rush kind of ended.
Michael Evans: So I feel this very viscerally when we’re talking and I wanna know what is the Golden Age? And then two, how do you see subscriptions just as a broad business model for authors playing into this new
Becca Syme: age of publishing? Yeah. The transition between the Gold Rush and the Golden Age may be a long one, right?
Becca Syme: Like it may be because what [00:18:00] happens when the bubble doesn’t burst? So I don’t think that the bubble burst in publishing, and I don’t think it’s ever really going to burst. It’s more like, There were too many people publishing, and I don’t mean that people shouldn’t be publishing, I just mean for the number of readers that are looking to read books the supply has exceeded the demand.
Becca Syme: And so the de the supply has to either normalize or it has to get swept away, right? Where like the glut of books in the market is creating a reader problem, which is why TikTok is working, by the way, because someone is finally curating books for people. Cuz there are so many books out there.
Becca Syme: So instead of the readers dealing with the slush pile, which is basically what happened between 20 13, 14, 12, 11, and 20 20, 20 21, when Book Talk really took off. And Instagram was doing this a little bit on some level and blogs were doing this a little [00:19:00] bit, but TikTok has really become the like curator of this information lately.
Becca Syme: And that’ll change. But what’s interesting is there will always be something that will answer the problem. There will always be something that will solve the problem. And previously what solved the problem was if you didn’t get discovery and if the algorithm wasn’t your friend, then you were not gonna get seen.
Becca Syme: And now it’s much different. The problems just change every couple of years in the industry. But the reason I say the transition might last for some time is that how we all think about the industry matters, right? Because we’re all the ones who are talking about it. So the more we’re like, I have to publish fast, I have to, but I have to get this content out, I have to get this content out.
Becca Syme: The more we do that, the more we propagate the thinking that is gold rush thinking. And so when you said gold rush, Michael that’s the most accurate thing ever, right? There’s a part of you internally that is still. Caught up in [00:20:00] that because you haven’t hit the disruption yet. So here’s an example.
Becca Syme: Disruption in the job marketplace happened during Covid because we had a shutdown of most businesses and people all of a sudden realized things they had never realized before because they’d been existing on the momentum, right? So what’s gonna happen, unfortunately to most of us who are still existing in Gold Rush mentality, is we are going to burn out.
Becca Syme: This is why I did all the burnout work in 2018, cuz I’m like, I don’t think you guys realize what’s coming. What’s coming is a burnout of massive proportions and everybody’s basically gonna burn out. So we better hunker down and get ready for it. And sure enough, that was what happens because those patterns always have to get disrupted in order for them to change.
Becca Syme: And what’ll happen over time is the patterns get disrupted more and more. And then we really see the golden age like fully in. But I will say we’re seeing it already [00:21:00] happen. Because the burnouts had happened previously, and either people went back and got a day job and started, doing, or they started working in the industry to make money to support them being able to continue publishing.
Becca Syme: We’re seeing a lot of authors, and I think this is actually a good thing. We’re seeing a lot of authors work for other authors either doing cover design, doing admins, starting businesses, doing coaching, things like that where the authors are able to stay in the industry because the gold rush is, waning.
Becca Syme: Like all of the Gold Rush availability has waned, but they’re able to stay in the industry and keep their business sustainable specifically because they’re continuing to work in the industry and there is money to be made there. But people have burned out. They have either gotten other jobs or they found other ways to make money or whatever they’re doing.
Becca Syme: And they’re starting to normalize and harmonize a little bit more with the golden Age philosophy, which [00:22:00] is fewer, better books. So instead of fast dirty, which again, there’s a percentage of people who can write fast and well, and those people are not gonna be affected on the same level by the shift unless they burn out.
Becca Syme: But generally speaking, they don’t burn out at the same level. The people who are really not wired to do that, like most people who are able to write fast and well, are just continuing to do that and have done it since, since they started. Which is great to see. Because I do think it’s calming for all of us to realize that like the industry was never as monolithic as we thought it was.
Becca Syme: There were always still people making a living, writing one or two or three or four books a year. It wasn’t always only just the 24 books a year, or the 12 books a year, or the publishing conglomerates or something like that, that we’re making money. I still had plenty of clients through the Gold Rush who are writing one, two, and three books a [00:23:00] year who are making money.
Becca Syme: But it’s just that we’re gonna see that be more viable as we move forward. Not because I think the readers have anything to do with it, but because we can’t sustain a machine pace. Like we’re not machines. We can’t sustain machine pace. Unless we can, and then they will, but most of us can’t do that.
Michael Evans: Yeah. There’s so much to dive into there. Yeah. Yeah. My, my first thing is already thinking about. You when you talk about vertical platforms versus horizontal platforms and that being the future of where authors are building their businesses. And I’m really curious because we’ve had people in the Facebook group share the videos that you talk about this in and then think about this is subscription and she’s talking about this is what subscriptions allow you to do.
Michael Evans: And I’m curious cuz that’s how people respond to that, at least in the subscriptions for authors Facebook group.
Michael Evans: Obviously we’re in subscription land here, but when you hear that response, what do you think about that? Is something about subscriptions going to be a bigger part of this golden age? And how should someone approach, developing [00:24:00] a subscription that plays with their strengths, given that there’s no one subscription rule?
Michael Evans: We’re not saying there’s one way to have a
Becca Syme: good subscription. I do think that sustainability is key. And I’m sure you all talk about this as well. I know whenever I would talk to people who are starting on Patreon I would always say, Look, don’t do what I did. Don’t go a million miles an hour from day one because you won’t be able to sustain it.
Becca Syme: And then you’ll have to pull back and say, nevermind everybody we can’t do this. And that is not a fun transition to have to go through with your subscribers. But I think fi we’re reaching our four and a half year anniversary of the Patreon. And the Patreon that I have, and when I started, I did way too much.
Becca Syme: And I experimented more than I wanted to. And granted from a personality perspective, that’s exact, if somebody had told me not to do too much, I wouldn’t have listened to them anyway. I would’ve been like, no, we’re gonna do a thousand things. And then pulled back. And thankfully in the early days it was more invested, [00:25:00] like the people were more invested.
Becca Syme: So they were more willing to work with me while I found the The rhythm. But I would say sustainability is so key because over time, as the subscription and my subscription grew I had to bring staff on. I had to schedule ahead when I was not a fan of scheduling stuff ahead. I liked write live and I to be live a lot with my with my subscribers.
Becca Syme: But I had to get into a slightly different rhythm as it grew because I couldn’t sustain that pace as everything was also growing. And so I feel like sustainability is a really huge deal and a lot of us are like so afraid that if we don’t do everything, we’re gonna fail. And I’m here to say It’s sometimes better not to do everything from the beginning because then you can gauge interest better or grow into what you wanna offer.
Becca Syme: And especially those of us personality-wise who don’t like going back on our commitments than I would say commit to very [00:26:00] little and then grow into it. But to answer your original question about the, do I think that subscriptions a hundred percent. I feel like some form of either subscription service or very in-depth newsletter or very like we have forums on our website that are specific to our, our classes and like anything that can retain people in some kind of a community whether you are the one maintaining it or they are, doesn’t matter to me, but.
Becca Syme: Anything that can retain people I think is gonna be one of the keys to long-term success in, especially in two and three platforms, in the person based and the world based platforms. I don’t think it’s as necessary for people who have a one platform. It doesn’t mean it can’t work, it’s just cuz there are plenty of people who make it work.
Becca Syme: But it’s not as necessary for those people because they may not wanna create community. Like they may not want people to have any more access [00:27:00] to them than they already do. But anybody in a two or three, like a vertical platform where you really wanna retain people in your platform I subscription’s such a good idea.
Becca Syme: Yeah.
Michael Evans: Now I’m curious because you’re talking about obviously. Not every author, and I think this should be like a huge disclaimer that we throw out, which is not every author, first of all, one needs to have a description. We’re gonna talk more about that, but then two needs to have their fans of a close relationship with them.
Michael Evans: Yes. But for people who are, especially in two, the personality, relationship driven author and that sort of community, we have a lot of people who love that. I personally really enjoy that. I can sense that you are that kind of person as well. Yeah. Which is why you might have a really interesting insight into, with your subscription, with all the people that you have who are getting coaching from you and your staff, and then just your CUNY in general.
Michael Evans: Obviously we love almost everyone who’s part of it. They’re amazing. But at the same time, you are a human being too, who isn’t just Becca Sign author, coach extraordinaire. How do you draw a boundary just [00:28:00] broadly between the persona, which is authentic? It is you, but it’s not your entire life online.
Michael Evans: Yeah. And then the second part, which is maybe the individual interactions with fans that might cross a line, how do you deal with that?
Becca Syme: Yeah, I have a slightly different view on this because of the nature of the business of my Patreon. So I also had a fiction, Patreon Patreon subscription service.
Becca Syme: And I had different rules for those two places because as a fiction writer, I did not wanna have one-on-one relationships with anybody in my community. And they were primarily there for the world, right? So that was the goal of that of that platform. And so I rarely answered messages, like I. I had very strict rules cuz I was also and still am not on social media as that name. So I don’t have an accessible platform, as that author, but the world was and is so rich that I wanted to be able to [00:29:00] create extra content for the fans in that. So my rules for the fiction platform were basically, you don’t have access to me.
Becca Syme: And I was pretty upfront with the fact that I’m not gonna answer messages. A couple of people who are my. Coaching people, right? Like my Becca sign. People knew about that. Patreon joined, and when they would message me, I would message them back cuz they knew it was me. But generally speaking I was inaccessible.
Becca Syme: I did not try to create community on there. It was a hundred percent a three platform. It was a world based maps and character descriptions and extra scenes and stuff like that. So it was all it was all world based. But on my non-fiction platform, because the whole model of our business is individualized.
Becca Syme: And this has been something that from the beginning we have been different from everyone else. The. The evergreen content model that was [00:30:00] really successful in 20 13, 14 when I started. I hate it. I just can’t do evergreen content cuz my individualization, I’m a number four individualization. I constantly wanna customize everything for everybody.
Becca Syme: So like I write posts to individual people I write letters to individual people. Everything is very one-on-one in my platform. So I am much more accessible in that platform than I would typically suggest fiction authors being. But that’s because when people get my attention, it’s because we have some kind of a relationship.
Becca Syme: So like all the 900 people that are on my Patreon and the. Whatever, 1500 something that have been on and off of it over the course of the four and a half years. I have a personal relationship with most of those people, if not all of them. And so I’ve either coached them one-on-one in the past or am ongoing coaching them still or have [00:31:00] met them at a conference or I get very few people who are just joining the Patreon, cuz they’re curious about information.
Becca Syme: The majority of the people, when they subscribe, I recognize their name, I email them back and like when I, when people join my Patreon, I get a little email that says, Emilia has joined at $1 level. And I’ll email back and I’ll be like, Hey, how are you? Like here’s all the stuff you’re gonna need for the Patreon.
Becca Syme: So I’m a very personal two platform. On my Patreon. And I don’t generally suggest that with most people because it is a lot of maintenance and work. But it’s my, it’s what I believe is gonna work for the writers who need the help.
Michael Evans: I think that’s really, that’s good to have that awareness of what’s best for you.
Michael Evans: And I can imagine, that’s why you have, like you mentioned, a whole team helping you. If it was more lower touch, you probably wouldn’t need that. But that’s the benefit of what everyone’s getting, being a part of that. So that’s, I think, wonderful. And it takes me to then this other question, cause we’re talking about having [00:32:00] these subscription services and obviously your series that is very famous is helping people quit the things that they’re not working for them.
Michael Evans: Obviously not quitting writing entirely, but Yes, specifically subscriptions obviously are one aspect of the whole publishing world and. We already were talking about this idea of, oh, we see someone making money. We feel like we need to do this. I’ve observed this with subscriptions. There’s a lot of authors who feel like they need to do that, and we tell them, you don’t need to have subscription, but let’s actually tell them when you should maybe quit a subscription.
Michael Evans: What would be your answer
Becca Syme: to that? Yeah, when it is so cumbersome for you that you can’t make yourself do the work and I will caveat that if there is like a depression issue or a seasonal effective disorder issue, like we can go through times where we don’t wanna make content and that’s fine, but when you don’t find that when things change in your life, you’re looking forward to making the content it’s time to quit.
Becca Syme: Because when it becomes so much of an obligation that [00:33:00] either you’re not wanting to do it or you’re not giving the best of yourself to the service I would not be doing it anymore just because that’s also probably gonna come across in the way that you deliver content and that’s not gonna be a beneficial experience.
Becca Syme: That being said, though, I think it depends on what you promise your readers. So I’ll give you a couple of examples cuz I coach a fair amount of people now who are on Patreon because of Clubhouse. Like I, when Clubhouse first started, the founders of Patreon were on Clubhouse a lot and they would run rooms and I was always in because I was one of the bigger creators at the time on Patreon.
Becca Syme: And so I coach a lot of people who have Patreons and coach many people who have quit Patreons over the the course of the years and One of the, one of the interesting things is seeing people who have the same results, but like one of them should quit and one shouldn’t. So like I had two authors who basically had stopped all content [00:34:00] generation, but one of them, their fans were complaining about it, right?
Becca Syme: They were like, where is our stuff? And the other one, the fans just knew this author was. Not gonna produce the content that they had promised. And they were still showing up and there for it. And every time the author would randomly post something every like few months, they’d be like, woo-hoo, this is so exciting.
Becca Syme: Versus the other Patreon where they had almost the exact same number of people. They were making almost the exact same amount of money. And, but the other Patreon, the fans were so frustrated because the author was frustrated and you could feel it, like you could feel that they didn’t wanna be doing it, that they were reluctant in their content delivery.
Becca Syme: Whereas the other person would just forget. Like they would honestly just forget that they owed it and their patrons were true patrons. They were just giving them money because they wanted to make sure that they could continue to be an author. And I think that’s the other thing we don’t always consider [00:35:00] is that not everybody expects content delivery from their subscriptions when they know the model is this is paying my.
Becca Syme: Mortgage or my car payment, and this is making it so I can continue to be a writer and hey, I want you to continue to be a writer, so I’m going to give you maybe more than I would have if I was just buying a book in a transaction from you because I want your author life to be sustainable. And the concept of patrons, I think has really helped some people who don’t necessarily use that as much for content delivery as they may have originally thought they would because their fans are so invested in them continuing to write that they’re just there for it.
Becca Syme: But then you have the platforms that are basically like all content production and when they slow down, they really do need to be have that discussion with themselves of do I wanna continue doing this? Is this gonna give me enough energy or finance? Because some of [00:36:00] the reason I encourage people to stop is that they’re expecting.
Becca Syme: To see what some of the higher delivery Patreon people, it’s like they heard somebody could make six figures on Patreon and they’re like I better open a Patreon then. And then when they don’t make that money after a year or two years and they’re still continuing to flog the subscription, then it’s okay, we may need to talk about is this something you wanna keep doing or not?
Becca Syme: But so much of it is dependent on the individual person and how they feel about the subscription. Yeah, we talk about this a lot and yeah, I agree with all of that. We tell a lot of people like, Hey, subscriptions are gonna be different for everyone because they are like, you can’t look at one person.
Becca Syme: A lot of people look at my subscription and they’re like, oh, she’s doing all these things. I need to do all these things. And it’s really, it’s I’m just like, no, you should not, you should do what is sustainable for [00:37:00] you. Yeah. And then as your team grows and as your subscription grows, bring more people on to help you and then you can start expanding out because it’s really it’s not going to help you doing five different things and offering all this content when you can’t keep up with it.
Becca Syme: Yeah. Yep. A hundred percent. Yep.
Michael Evans: No that’s a huge key I think, especially cuz you were talking about like the literal patronage aspect of it and people feel, I think uncomfortable because it’s oh My, my regular ebook might cost $5. So if they’re now gonna be paying me $5 a month and I’m not producing a book a month that I’m giving them in this subscription, maybe I write three books a year.
Michael Evans: Now all of a sudden they’re paying me like quadruple. Which sounds nice to me, is an author ob. The benefit there is obvious, but for the reader it’s like, how do I provide them four times more value? And oftentimes that gets like conflated with four times the content. So then people are, I mean I’ve seen it like there’s eight or nine benefits on this subscription of bonus, this [00:38:00] character art, this, that, and I’m just like overwhelmed.
Michael Evans: Like when I look at it. Yeah. And I’m like, I have no idea where to begin. What would be your advice to someone who’s like actually having, cuz we talked about like the kind of getting over the hump of charging Sure.
Michael Evans: Someone who has trouble. Maybe selling or asking for the readers to buy something specifically with the subscription, what would be your advice?
Michael Evans: Cuz that’s an even bigger hurdle
Becca Syme: in a sense. Yeah, I would say the reason people join subscription services and the reason they buy books are different. Like they, people who only wanna read are just gonna buy your books. Like they’re not gonna ever join a subscription and that is their place in your platform.
Becca Syme: And that’s a good and necessary place. But it’s not everybody there are always people in every platform and it’s a smaller number for some and a larger number for others. But there are always people in every platform who want more of what you’re doing. And that doesn’t necessarily mean they want, cuz I, I struggled with this at first, feeling like I had to give people, who are [00:39:00] doing like $150.
Becca Syme: Thing. Like I had to give them like a post every other day or something like that. And it’s no, that’s overwhelming to them. Like they’re here for the one benefit that they’re here for generally. Yeah. Like most of the time there’s one benefit that they really want and everything else is extra.
Becca Syme: So I always think about in my Patreon experience when I’ve joined other people, like I am a member of several different Patreons of like people that I consume their content, and I rarely. Get any of the benefits other than the one that I’m really there for. So I think just understanding that like when people value what you do, they wanna pay for the thing that they’re there for.
Becca Syme: And if they’re there for early chapters and that’s what they want, then giving them character art and maps and all of that stuff is only gonna confuse them when they [00:40:00] want, when they’re there for the chapters. And I do think there’s a benefit to the person who wants to do the cover reveals and they wanna do these things that are part of their community.
Becca Syme: Where Patreon has taken the place or ream or anywhere, has taken the place of the Facebook group where we were running our commu our reader communities on Facebook until we stopped getting organic reach there. And then, so now the Patreon is Let me put out a or the subscription service.
Becca Syme: Let me put out a notice every time something happens. And I’m like, but generally speaking, less is more for them. Like most people are not, and this is gonna sound awful and I apologize ahead of time. I very low empathy. I will try to be kind about this. No one cares, like no one is orienting their life around your subscription service. So it is not so big of a deal that if you don’t deliver on that $5 that they’re gonna hate you for the rest of their [00:41:00] life. It’s like when they sign up for a subscription service, they know they’re getting something different than what they’re getting on Amazon or on Apple.
Becca Syme: Or on radish even, right? Like anywhere they’re getting a different product from you and they’re generally there because they want something different. Like they want a sense of community or they wanna be closer to you, or they want, like I said, the one particular benefit that they’re there for. I joined somebody’s Patreon from a YouTube channel that I followed just because they do Handwritten postcards, and it’s a very high level tier that you have to pay for to get this benefit.
Becca Syme: And that was the only thing. I’ve never consumed any of their other content. They send me posts every day, twice a day, and I never ever read any of it. All I am there for is the postcard that they wrote themselves, that signed by the two of them from the podcast and that’s what I’m there for. And I think we, we need to not make people’s decisions for them, if somebody [00:42:00] wants to just support you then I would say that’s a reasonable thing to do for someone who wants your career to continue. Yeah. And if people want your content, then I would offer as little content as possible, because I always feel like. Scarcity is a better opportunity to create more relationship or it’s a better opportunity to create more desire rather than people being overburdened or over, like over content produced.
Becca Syme: The other piece and Michael you mentioned this, I think is really important when you’ve been on a Patreon or a subscription service for a long time. People come in and they’re overwhelmed already. There needs to be some kind of a guide for how to consume your content for new subscribers.
Becca Syme: And we did this last year and it’s just, it solved so many problems. We had special FAQ posts that were for each individual tier on our subscriber tiers. [00:43:00] And every single person, when they subscribe, gets an email that explains to them what the benefits are from our language, right? And we say, Here’s what you get.
Becca Syme: And if you have any questions, here’s how you ask us. And by the way, here’s our F FAQ post in general. Here is the F FAQ post for your level. And here are some of the posts that your tier people are found really popular. So like I pulled out five or six of the most popular reasons people come to the Patreon and I just put them into the f FAQ post so that people have a really guided experience when they come in, when you have a lot of content available.
Becca Syme: It’s just really overwhelming. And I don’t know if Reem is also like that, but Patreon is so hard to navigate when you come in for the first time cuz everything is just scrolling, right? Yeah. So so we really try to curate for people and help them so they, we reduce their decision fatigue when they join.
Michael Evans: That’s without a doubt, onboarding with any [00:44:00] sort of subscription service is so important. And it’s something that. You don’t have to do in a sort of transactional model. Like they get the book, they download it from whatever that retailer is, and you’re done. And that’s great. But if you have a subscription that’s at the minimum, it’s a relationship, whether it’s a personal relationship or not, it’s a relationship that they’re having with you as an entity, your brand, your world, yourself.
Michael Evans: And you need to be able to get that off on the right foot. That’s really great. The FAQs by tier, I think that’s a really good idea.
Becca Syme: Great one. Yeah, I was really I can’t remember who suggested that to me, but somebody mentioned in one of our feedback forms, cause we also have feedback forms, right?
Becca Syme: Somebody mentioned like, when I come on, this is my experience and then I was talking to one of my staff and they were like we can solve that, but we have to be able to individually get to them, right? And I was like, okay then let’s do this, and this. And I feel and I know I repeat this a lot, but.
Becca Syme: Thinking about the experience from the customer’s perspective. So many of us are trying to solve our [00:45:00] problems by doing a subscription service, and we’re trying to solve our problems instead of solving the reader’s problems or solving the subscriber’s problems. And I feel like there are too many businesses, and I am trying really hard not to rant about this because I just, there are so many businesses that you’re a number to them.
Becca Syme: Yeah. And they do not care if you have a good experience or not. And we all know how invalidating that feels. And so many of us are, especially in like millennial and Gen Zs, are rebelling against that experience by finding smaller creators and smaller businesses and smaller experiences. So we don’t have to feel like we’re just an expendable number to somebody.
Becca Syme: And I feel like. Understanding that is a core desire of people. If I have a bad experience at C V s and nothing ever happens to c V s because my life got ruined, nothing ever happens to anyone there except maybe one poor customer service [00:46:00] person gets yelled at. But there are no ramifications cuz nobody cares about whether my problems really get solved or not.
Becca Syme: They only care if they make money off of me. And I feel like changing our mindset as this is gonna be one of the golden age rules, I think because we already see it happening in the larger culture. That if you’re only interested in solving your own problems, I’m not interested in you anymore.
Becca Syme: Yeah. As a consumer. And I feel like that mindset shift is gonna be a really huge part of what can set us apart in the golden age is being willing to think about what the readers actually want and need, and being willing to think about things from their perspective and put ourselves in their shoes and have empathy for them and help them navigate and, exist like that.
Becca Syme: I think that’s gonna be the biggest shift of anything.
Michael Evans: That’s beautiful. We like to say Readers first is just two words coming up. Yes. A great book on this is Fans First by Jesse Cole. If you have not read that book by, I [00:47:00] haven’t
Becca Syme: Highly Rec, like you have to read
Michael Evans: it. It’s almost, yeah, I’m gonna write that.
Michael Evans: Incredible. It’s about the Savannah Bananas and a baseball
Becca Syme: and Oh my God, I love the Savannah Banana. Yeah. Yes. The guy
Michael Evans: who runs
Becca Syme: that. Yes, you have to. It’s incredible. Oh my God, I have to read that. Have you ever read Monster Loyalty by the Lady Gaga story? No, but now I’m, oh, okay. Okay. You have to read just like running anyone who runs a.
Becca Syme: A platform of any kind for people, I think needs to read that book. Okay. I think it’s one of my, one of my coaching clients suggested it to me, and when I read it I was like, oh my gosh, this is and also if you haven’t read Gold Apples by Terry Shot those two books, because I really believe that is the model of the future.
Becca Syme: And the Savannah Bananas are exactly an example of what I mean by this. It’s that. You’re thinking about me when you’re making your stuff, you’re thinking about me. When you’re designing the experience of coming into your stadium, you’re thinking about me. When [00:48:00] you’re making every decision that you make, I become as a fan or as a participant in that experience.
Becca Syme: I become important to them in a way that we haven’t been in the past. And I think everything that can make people feel that level of security and validation and that’s gonna be the, I just think that’s gonna be the key to the future.
Michael Evans: Yeah. Oh, I couldn’t agree more. That’s, oh, that’s beautiful.
Michael Evans: I have one, one last question. One last thing I wanna touch on. Yeah. Which is a little bit of a deviation from descriptions, but that’s what we say at the end of the podcast, which I’m curious about. You mentioned that. R, r and d being able to see if a book is good for a target mar market.
Michael Evans: We say story market fit. You can use a bunch of different words for it, but you need to go through that process of r and d. But obviously that process of r and d requires not only creating the product but being able to have a certain number of viables on it. But then you also mentioned how all these platforms at the moment are to a degree [00:49:00] saturated and hard to break in on.
Michael Evans: So how would you marry that sort of need for getting some sort of, before you even really know where to start, and if you have the right story, you need to test it. How would you test that in the golden age? How do you test things when it’s harder than ever to get seen?
Becca Syme: So the first thing I think that’s important obviously is a personal fit thing.
Becca Syme: It’s me as an individual, everybody’s gonna approach this a little bit differently. So I’ll try to give a few different, like I examples of what I mean by that. So let’s say someone who is. Very fast at content generation and rights to market, right? Like their experience of r and d is gonna be really different.
Becca Syme: And they tend to also come with a a level of okay, that didn’t work, so we’re gonna just move on. Like there is that level of experimentation cuz I think that experimental mindset is really important in research and development. And the reason that I think we see a lot [00:50:00] of authors burning out and leaving the industry and churning themselves out is because they imbue so much stake.
Becca Syme: There’s so much at stake whether this book sells or thought, or whether this series sells or not. Instead of thinking how many decades do you have left in your career, you might have four or five, six decades, even if you only have one decade left in your career. That’s so many potential books that you could still be producing.
Becca Syme: If you can produce them at a sustainable level where you’re not overspending in your investment on them because you’re trying to test the market with them. Then knowing that there is no one book that’s gonna make or break everything, right? There’s always the opportunity for more in the future. I think that’s a huge mindset shift for research and development is we and this, I don’t think this is anyone’s fault.
Becca Syme: I just think this is how the Gold Rush mentality has trained a lot of us. But we believe that if we create the product, the market will just [00:51:00] sell it for us. And there’s this whole mindset of every book should sell that we don’t realize we have instead of. Most books don’t sell like the majority of books, the vast majority of books do not sell.
Becca Syme: So if my books aren’t selling, that doesn’t say anything morally good or bad about me. It just says that I didn’t hit the market at the right time with the right product. But I can always do that in the future if I will just allow myself to continue making products at a sustainable level. And that might mean I don’t spend $10,000 on releases anymore.
Becca Syme: It might mean I change my cover art strategy or my editorial strategy, or my release strategy. Because in the different types of readers like there are some readers who will really benefit from doing the smartest release. Strategy. So if my goal is to try to beat the algorithms, then if I’m a smart releaser, I may wait until I have three or four books finished and then [00:52:00] mass release those all at one, all on one day, or release them like, one every few weeks in order to try to game the system.
Becca Syme: And get more eyeballs on it because I’m releasing quicker. But not everyone can hold books like that, right? So then there are people who are the, I have to release the book right now as soon as I finish it. And then I would say I would wait to do a whole ton of discovery until you get farther into a series, because again, thinking about the readers and trying to take the highest advantage of the eyeballs when you get them.
Becca Syme: So if it’s possible for me to show the readers that I have written three books in this series, or four or five books in this series and now it’s gonna be worth them investing in book one, then I may have a better shot. But again, like everybody’s so different. Cause even as I’m saying that, I’m like, but some people.
Becca Syme: Do so much better throwing their whole self into trying to make one book at a time sell. And some [00:53:00] people do a better job of selling an entire series at one time. And I hate giving the answer always of it depends, even though that’s like the drinking game that we play on my Patreon’s, like every time Becca says, it depends everybody drinks because that’s the thing that I say the most often.
Becca Syme: But it really does depend, and this is maybe the hardest part about talking to larger groups of authors at once is yeah every single person is. Not just unique in personality, which is a big enough deal, but is also unique in assets and energy. In the amount of time they can afford to spend on something in the amount of runway that they have left in their finances in the amount of energy they have left to create books in their physical and biological health.
Becca Syme: Everyone has such a completely different place. And this is why I’m talking so much more about sustainability and about the golden age of publishing because if we can just calm down the adrenaline producing [00:54:00] fear of I have to do it right now or else I’m never gonna be, never gonna be able to do it.
Becca Syme: And then Becca’s oh no sweetie, the Gold Rush has been over for years. There is literally no reason to rush because I would rather see us do it right than do it fast. Cuz doing it fast is gold rush mentality. Doing it right is golden age mentality. And the readers are dying for good books like they’re dying.
Becca Syme: They are so in need of good books. And yet we have so many books on the market that they are not reading. So there’s something that’s not working there either we are not producing the content that they want which is possible and we need to look at our content production strategies or they are not able to see what we have.
Becca Syme: And in that case, I would say being as strategic as possible about how you get eyeballs using the places that you know. Have worked for other people that are [00:55:00] doing the similar thing, right? Book Bub or doing BookFunnel giveaways or doing, or being in a new market, like a new subscriptions market or in a new like when radish first started or when TikTok first started, right?
Becca Syme: Like using the blue water when it’s available or finding people who are really good at producing deliverability. Like at producing new eyeballs and paying those people to do it and saving to a point where you can afford to pay those people to do it. But we have to think about it like a long game.
Becca Syme: And the reason is, again, I hate to repeat this, but you can build a great surfboard, but you can’t make a wave. And if you can’t make a wave, then you have to be willing to wait for the wave if it comes. And you have to be willing to continue to persevere through the experience, even if you are not currently making money.
Becca Syme: Because not making money right now doesn’t mean you’re not gonna make money in the future. It has almost no relevancy at all to whether you’re gonna make money in the future or not. People can take off at any time, [00:56:00] especially in an overcrowded market because there’s so much chance that you are actually writing good books and they’re just not getting seen because you’re out of alignment with your genre.
Becca Syme: Or the covers are off, or the blurbs aren’t tweaked, or you release on the wrong day, or Amazon screwed up your release or whatever. There’s so many things that could go wrong that we really have to develop resilience and a desire to do this job so much that we’re willing to put up with failure when it happens and just keep going in order to continue to have suc.
Becca Syme: The opportunity for success in the future can only happen if we keep. Researching, developing, releasing. But do it at a sustainable level. So don’t mortgage your house like this is not yeah. You know what I mean? Don’t take out loans that you can’t afford to pay back. Like only spend what you can afford.
Becca Syme: And there’s a really great book, I will say I don’t lo, I don’t love the book, but I love the concept of what’s called profit first, where, oh yeah. The concept right, is basically you could [00:57:00] operate on a lot less money than you are operating on. Yeah. You just don’t have to, so you’re not, so if you pull aside the money and say, I’m not gonna spend this, and instead I’m gonna force myself to operate, then it makes you get more creative with what you’re doing.
Becca Syme: So instead of like I have a client who’s doing. All of her. She’s not doing Facebook ads anymore. She’s not doing well. She does some Amazon ads for releases. She’s doing all in-person direct sales. And she basically travels around this, very populated part of the country and does flea markets and farmer’s markets.
Becca Syme: And she’s doing hand selling of her books. And it’s actually made her books sell more when the people leave because they’re enjoying them and then they’re going home and recommending them to their friends. So she got creative with that because she couldn’t afford to spend the money on Amazon ads and Facebook ads anymore, and they weren’t delivering for her anyway.
Becca Syme: And so now she’s [00:58:00] basically hand selling everything and is having a great time doing it. And that’s not for everybody. But it’s this, that’s my great idea that we think it has to happen in this one way. Yeah. And then we close our minds to any other possibilities without realizing it. Oh
Michael Evans: my God, this is beautiful stuff.
Michael Evans: I. I have to end this off by saying Yeah everyone now is probably like, where can I find Becca? I want to learn more from her. I want to have maybe you, as you were talking about all the Inized coaching that you do. So tell us where we can find you. Tell us where we can get more
Becca Syme: of Becca’s side.
Becca Syme: So the YouTube channel is the best place just because like I’m and we have been better about this year, about doing a video every week and so trying to keep up with the content production. I’m also hoping to do more content about the new rules of publishing, like the golden age of publishing style stuff in the future.
Becca Syme: And then, I have a Patreon. It is where some of our coaching happens there for sure. I would say I would go to the YouTube channel first and I would consume the [00:59:00] content that’s on the YouTube channel. And if you want more, then I would go to the Patreon from there. If you are here listening and you’re like, I need coaching immediately, email manager@betterfasteracademy.com and she’ll get you connected with somebody.
Becca Syme: But generally speaking, if you’re if you’re looking for more info, the YouTube channel is the best place to find it.
Michael Evans: That’s great. Plenty of people will be watching this on YouTube, so that should be a pretty Yes. Pretty easy shift over subscribe. But that is amazing. Yeah. We are so grateful to have you on.
Michael Evans: This was energizing for me. Yeah. And I bet for everyone listening too. So thank you so much for being here. Yeah.
Becca Syme: Yeah. I had a blast. Thank you for having me.
Michael Evans: And that was it. Episode number 32 the Subscriptions for Authors podcast. We have an amazing few episodes coming up. In fact, we’ve already filmed up through just about episode 50 now, and we’re currently editing and getting ready for the summer season of the podcast. We have some incredible guests and if you’d like to [01:00:00] stay up to date and know when this podcast goes live.
Michael Evans: Then, so subscribe to this podcast. Our goal is gonna be to release one episode every Thursday for now on, and we might have a few bonus episodes in there that aren’t released on Thursdays, but every Thursday for the next couple months, you can expect an episode from us next Thursday. I actually won’t tell you who we have next Thursday will be a surprise, but I hope you tune in next Thursday to our podcast.
Michael Evans: In the meantime, let us know. Any additional questions you have coming outta this one. I know for me, thinking about strengths and subscriptions, it’s a really rich conversation and one that I think is really worthwhile having more in the Facebook group. So if you’re not already in the Facebook group, I would love to chat about this.
Michael Evans: Would love to hear your thoughts about the podcast. And in the meantime, I hope everyone has an amazing rest of their day. Don’t forget to check out all the amazing resources we [01:01:00] have to help you start and grow your subscription. We have fireside chats, all of which are basically webinars hitting key topics and subscriptions that you can watch for free.
Michael Evans: We have a book, the Subscriptions for Authors Starter Guide, and it’s really a full book on how to grow a successful subscription that you can sign up for our mailing list and get sent to you for free. We have a lot of amazing resources. I would love for you to dive into them because I want you to succeed in the golden age of publishing and.
Michael Evans: You’ve got a lot of resources to try and help you do that. Yep. Anyways, enough from me. Thank you for listening to this one. I’ll see y’all soon. But in the meantime, don’t forget Storytellers Rule the World.