Posted on April 5, 2024
How In-Person Events Can Supercharge Your ReadershipIn this episode, we learn all about how to use in-person events to grow our readership as authors. Anna McCluskey shares with us how to find events you can attend cost-effectively, the best ways to prepare for success, and how to maximize events to make money selling books and have fun with readers!
#78 Transcript:
Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the Subscriptions for Authors podcast. So today we have a really fun episode all about how to grow your readership through in person events. And we have a very special guest with us. Anna McCluskey, who is an urban fantasy author who at this point you like a master at immersive events. You’re doing three just for reaching readers this year alone. That’s still hasn’t happened yet. So three more this year and on top of that, yeah. Doing more than three. Yeah. I think maybe there were three when I booked this last week, but I have applied to a couple more. Yeah. You’re hitting the event circuit and that’s. not exactly the first thing a lot of us think about, like how to grow as an author, going to in person events, but you’re doing it. So we’re going to talk about that. We’re going to talk about how you’ve used that to grow your subscription, how you use also Kickstarter. And also going to talk about how you’ve recently gotten into a different side of events with actually. Running and managing the subscriptions for authors summit, which is coming up very shortly. So yeah, an event filled podcast with the event event leader and aficionado. But Anna, it is great to have you here. Welcome, welcome to the podcast. It’s so funny. Cause I think we met almost a year, a little over a year ago, I think is we like informally met through the Facebook group and then you joined the all star team right around a year ago, which was. And still is the group of awesome authors that help out and moderating the group help out just in terms of all the things that go on in the Facebook group. And then after that, we decided we did a little virtual summit. And we’re like, oh, we’re going to do an in person conference for descriptions for authors community. And then I remember, I think it was that first dream like quarterly. Call, right? And I think you watched that on YouTube, or were you there live? I was there live and you like shared future positions that would be available and I just latched onto community and events manager. And I was like, I could do that. And I just like immediately that day, put together my resume and cover letter and sent it and you were like we weren’t gonna hire anybody for a while, but since it’s you and I was like, okay. And yeah, that’s how it all started. And it’s wild because as we’re recording this, we’re a little over a month out from like the first big live event we’re doing, but this all started planning, now seven, eight months ago, I think it’s at least been half a year of Solid planning, but it’s really been close to seven or eight months. Talk to us what you’re excited about for the upcoming summits. And what are they? Because we’re talking about this event going on, but what is it? So there’s technically two summits, right? There’s the in person summit, and then we’re also doing another virtual summit. Similar to last year’s, but of course with new programming and everything like that. And yeah, so the in person one is just, it’s a couple of days in May and it’s just going to be like jam packed full of like amazing Information and networking and discussion and just everything subscriptions and like morning to night, like we have an informal breakfast networking thing anybody can come to if they want and then the actual like speakers. We have an amazing lineup. And then there’s Luncheon discussions and salons you can go to for dinner that have different themes marketing or branding or whatever. And then after that even, there’s an after hours thing, which I think you’re running that, Michael. I’m not a night person. I’m going to go home, or not home, to the hotel. And then, The next day again, breakfast, speakers, lunches, more speakers. Yeah, it’s going to be really exciting. And it’s not like a huge event either, which I think is going to be really cool to have just this core group of really enthusiastic people, all just. Doing their thing together and learning and helping each other learn. So I’m excited. Yay. Yeah. It’s a bunch of it’s a bunch of author friends hanging out and learning together and it’ll be taking place in Boston. So for folks who are like in the Boston area or who know writers in the Boston area, it’s definitely a great conference to be at. And you can find the link to actually get a ticket. In the description you can feel free to reach out if you have any questions. We’re only a month out. So definitely, if you are interested now would probably be the time because you’re going to want to make sure you get your travel plan settled. And another thing that we’re doing, especially for folks who might not be close to Boston, who might not want to come to an in person conference, although we’re going to be talking all about in person events today. Will be people who want to come to the virtual summit. Which is taking place 12 days after, or is it 13 days? I think it’s 10 days, 10 days after. It’s the 18th and 19th. I haven’t done the math. Yeah, it’s somewhere around like a week and a half after the in person summit, giving us a little time to recover. If you come to the in person summit, you automatically have a ticket. To the virtual summit, and if you come to the virtual summit, we’ll make sure you get some recordings of the in person summit. Won’t be live stream, but the virtual summit will be live stream to folks who have tickets and we have another group of 10 plus speakers, some awesome panels and. That’ll be fun because we’ll also have some virtual meetups. So it should be an amazing event and that will be taking place on the weekend, Saturday and Sunday. Friday night, there’ll be some stuff too. So feel free to check out that as well. That’ll be at the same link, summit. subscriptionsforauthors. com. And we’d love to. Love to have you involved. It should be a lot of fun. Yes. And super grateful for you, Anna, being able to take the lead and do an awesome job getting all these speakers, getting all the programming, all the logistics, especially for in person. There’s a lot of moving pieces, but it’s honestly, we’ve tried to do everything we can to think of every little area that can make the event better and awesome and smooth for y’all. We even have a van. That’s going to pick up and drive people from some of the nearby hotels. Yeah, which will be super fun and the venue itself is really special. So we do have to see you all there. And on the topic of events and. Why should you go to events? Obviously, we just told y’all why you should go to the Descriptions for Authors Summit. But today we want to talk a little bit more broadly about events, especially events that are like reader focused or reader adjacent focused, where you can actually hypothetically, hopefully, grow your audience. But let’s talk about that because I know you Anna have been to tons and tons of events, but for folks who might be listening who’ve never been to a signing before, never been to a con, never been to even there’s events that aren’t reader focused that you can still go to. They might be just general craft fairs or local artists exhibits. Lots of different options. Why should someone consider going to an in person event? Is it worthwhile for authors? And if it is, are there specific authors who you think would be more successful or find in person events more worthwhile? And I guess, importantly, why did you get into it? It has been very very worthwhile for me. I actually make most of my author money through events and I think that one of the reasons that I’m so successful is that I do have kind of a. Good kind of in person personality like just people like me for some reason. I don’t know So I think that if you’re timid or you don’t really enjoy talking to people then it might not be for you But if you can talk to people and you want to connect with readers on an individual basis Right there in person. I think that events can be really great I have made some great super fans at events because they’ve met me, they’ve talked to me, they know who I am, as well as getting to know my work and my books, and so I think that’s a really big piece of it, and I come from a food service background as well, I’ve been a bartender, a barista, I know how to sell, and I think that’s key, but it’s not that hard, basically just going in and being personable and asking people questions and getting to know them and knowing, getting to know what book they’re going to want and going, okay this one is really good for you. And it’s hard to resist that when an author is just going, Hey, you’d like this book. You personally would like this book. I think that’s, if you can do that, then you can make this work. And It’s just a really great way to connect with people and people just love to meet local authors. If they are, if you’re doing events that are in your area, and you can say, yes, I’m a local author. I’m just like you. I live here. I do things. of things that you do, but I also write these books. People love to connect that way. And yeah, there are so many different kinds of events that you can do too. It’s not just, I think there’s a miscomprehension I think among authors that like only, Fantasy or sci fi authors can go to a Comic Con and sell books and that’s what in person events are, but I do craft fairs, I do maker’s markets I do individual signings at bookstores where it’s just me and I’m, reading a couple chapters and then signing books. Do comic cons. I am an urban fantasy author. I do pride fests, I do art fairs, I do all kinds of stuff. Getting creative with it is really key, I think, to getting a wide range of events rather than just maybe one or two a year. Not that there’s anything wrong with just doing one or two a year, but if you want to be. If you want this to be a big part of your author business, then there’s a lot of opportunities out there for any genre. Why don’t you talk to me about your first event? Because I, now that you’ve done it many times, it makes sense that You now know, you know it, so you’ve got the playbook, you’ve sourced the events, it’s a lot of work, but what got what made you think, I’m going to try this? Because it’s a leap, right? To put yourself out there as an author is a leap. And how did that first event go? I’m trying to think what the first event was. It’s been so many. It’s been a while. I remember why I wanted to do it though. I remember, That my first event was a craft fair, like a small craft fair. I want to say it was actually my friend who has a restaurant was doing a craft fair outside of her restaurant. And so there was like, it was like maybe 15 or 20 vendors. And yeah, I’m pretty sure this was the first one I did. Yeah. And So I was like, you know what? Why not? I’m gonna set up a booth. I’m gonna do this here. And I did it because I wanted to get practice because I wanted to start doing larger events. I wanted to start doing like comic cons and things like that. And it hadn’t really occurred to me before that I could do smaller events, but I just wanted to practice. And I think I made a good deal of money at that one, and it was a very small event, and it didn’t have a lot of foot traffic either, it was not, I probably wouldn’t do that event now, because it’s, it didn’t, it wouldn’t feel like it was worthwhile to me at this point in my career, but it was a really good starting point. I think I made like 200 that day, I think. So yeah, so it was not nothing by any means, but it was small and it was probably perfect for my first one to just You know, set up and make 200. And I think that it was really hot that day. And so that, that was not great. It was an outside event. And like I said, there was not a lot of traffic. But if you talk to every single person who goes by, even if there’s not a lot of people, you’re still, you’re going to get a certain percentage of those people and you’re gonna, you’re gonna sell to. however many people like books, or sometimes even people who don’t like books but want to buy them for somebody else, or want to get into reading, or things like that. I always start with a very open ended question so that I can Get them engaged. So I don’t, if you just ask everybody who walks by, do you like fantasy books, they can just go, no, and keep walking. But what I usually say is, how do you feel about fantasy books? And then you have a wider range of answers. And a lot of times you do get people going I wish I could read more. I don’t have time. And that’s when you pick up, Your novella series. And you say, this is a great one to get back into reading. Or they might say, Oh, my niece really loves fantasy books. I’m not that into it. Oh, what’s her favorite book. And then you’re engaging. And next thing she’s buying a copy for her niece, so even a small event. You talk to everybody, you get some of them. And yeah, I think starting with something that is just very friendly. Like I said, it was, it was run by a friend of mine. And I think that helps. That helps you feel more comfortable. Cause, that there are people around who Are supportive of you and who invited you or, even if nobody invited you, like talking to somebody, who does events can be a really great way to find a first event. And then, that oh, five booths down, Steve is there and he’s doing great. And you can do great too, or whatever, this. Reminds me a lot of similar to the idea of if you’re trying to do cross promos or even Facebook group parties, like how you’d get into that. And it’s somewhat feels like a in person version of a lot of the things that maybe more of us are used to at least in the author world now. But if anything, like this, Is the real OG version of it and I really love that you’re talking about some of the readers that you now have your books, and that might be customers of yours, and now super fans, might not actually traditionally be, like, readers, or even think of themselves as readers. That’s really, I want to touch more on that, but let’s first start with, because. Amazing story about your first event. I think it’s very possible for everyone to like, even if you don’t know someone, maybe you pick a familiar restaurant, assuming an event that like, even if, worse comes to worse, it doesn’t go well, it’s close by. You like the food there, whatever. There’s always a way to make it simple. But you did this first event and then you must have had a thought at some point that was like, I’m going to do more, a lot more how did you start to choose what events to go to? Because you mentioned this, all these different kinds of events. And you also mentioned that nowadays you probably wouldn’t do that first event you did, but when I’m hearing it, I’m going, wow, 200 in a day sounds like a really good day. So tell me now, what your thought process is when finding and choosing to go, I want to apply for an event. I want to get a vendor table here, et cetera. Yeah. I think first off I usually do established events at this point that I can. Talk to the organizer and say how many people are you expecting? How many people have been to the last one? A lot of times I talk to other vendors at events and go, hey, what’s your next event? Where are you going next? What events have done really well for you? And that works really well as far as finding new events. I will say if there’s an event that is like every month or something like that, I won’t do every month. I won’t apply for, if I do it in August, I won’t apply again for September. I’ll apply again for November or something like that because you do get a lot of the same customers as well at these events and you want to space that out and do more different ones. A really great way too to find events is like joining Facebook groups that are focused on events because people will post information about their events. So like I’m in one for Oregon, I’m in one for Pacific Northwest and things like that. And then I look for events that are maybe a little bit unusual. So for example, there’s this pop up that. Does like monthly events all over the Willamette Valley and it’s called Market for the Strange. And so I figure, my tagline is urban fantasy for weirdos. All the weirdos are going to be there. So looking for events that kind of have your. target market. So if you write romance novels that are aimed at women age 30 to 50, I don’t know, I’m just I don’t write romance. I’m just but I want to let people know that it’s not just science fiction and fantasy that like do well at events, but say your target market is women age 30 to 50, maybe going to like a Christmas Bazaar, or something like that, that a lot of women in that age range would be going to something that would be a fundraiser for a school or something like that, a lot of moms would be there, something like that. Just think about where your target market is. In the same way that you do with social media, people always tell you if your readers are on Instagram, be on Instagram. It’s the same kind of thing with in person events, i, I write a lot of neurodivergent and queer characters, so I go to Market for the Strange and PrideFest and, I do very well at PrideFest, actually. And a big part of that, too, is that, again, going back to that, people like to see a local author who is like them. They like to connect with you. And so yeah finding your target readership in person is very similar to finding your target readership online. Yeah, no, it makes so much sense. And I love the idea of get creative and find something unusual. That’s something great. And I think In most cities now, I know you’re in the Pacific Northwest I’m at least right now in New England in the Boston area, but to give an example in Boston, there’s a newsletter called the B side Boston Globe runs it, but it’s like a spinoff and I know the guy who started it, it’s super interesting, basically it’s like a Gen Z ish to young millennial focused newsletter that really is trying to talk about in person events, And other things in the Boston area. And what’s really cool about it is that you can literally just subscribe to the free newsletter and get information about upcoming events. And that could be another way to discover things. And it’s funny when you were specifically mentioning Christmas bazaars, I was thinking of my mom and I’m like, yeah, she would love going to those. She’s not quite in the 30 to 40 range, but definitely would be maybe reading. I don’t know. My mom’s not exactly reader by like trade, which is weird because I’m a huge reader, but she would definitely like, she’s the exact demo of someone who would be at a Christmas market. Would love reading a local author and she’s loyal to a very few authors that she will read when she has time. She reads maybe a couple books a year, and I think it’s a lot of people like my mom who love going to events like that. And that’s someone who you can ask, not my mom no, not the whole world can ask my mom about the event she goes to, but you could ask someone who’s like, like your profile reader, but who’s like a friend of yours, who maybe reads similar ish books, similar, similar ish interests. To like who your target audience be and be like, Hey, what are some events in the area that you like to go to? Because other people have good answers. Mhm. Yeah. So finding your readers can be as simple as asking your readers where they are. And you normally go for local events, right? So meaning, are you booking events where there’s hotels involved and? All of that is that something that you’re doing often or do you like to stay away from because there’s obviously an extra expense when you count in hotels and greater travel costs. No, I tried not to accrue too many expenses. I do. So I’m I live in a small town, an hour and a half south of Portland. So I do events in Portland pretty frequently and so when I’m up there, I will either stay with a friend or get an Airbnb and obviously those are, that is more expense, and so I will only do like larger events where I know I’m gonna make that back, so coming up I have, One in Portland in August, called The Ghosts of Summer so that’s gonna be like a Halloween in August sort of situation and it should be a large event, so I’ll, I know I’ll make back my travel expenses I do Rose City Comic Con, I do Fan Expo Portland, again, those are huge events That span multiple days, and I know that I’m going to make a good, 1, 000 plus at those events. And so spending, 200 on a hotel room and 50 to rent a car, those are acceptable. If I was doing like, a smaller craft fair, I would want it to be local where I’m not going to be spending a ton of money and then only making, 300 or 400. Which, is great if that’s pure profit, but if you factor in hotel rooms and things like that that can really eat into your costs, your profit. Yeah, and also can’t forget the cost of the actual books, which, printing books is it is a cost for sure as well. Those smaller events are usually like 75 to 200 dollars. Varies pretty. varies a lot. Comic cons and things like that are usually upwards of three to 400. And so you want to make sure that you’re incorporating that into your plans. A lot of times with those larger events, though, you can get discounted booth fees if you agree to do programming. So that’s something to keep in mind as well. Oh, that’s really good, actually, especially because at some larger events to especially if you’re targeting events that might not necessarily Always have authors at it. For instance Natalie Keller Reinhardt, someone we had in the podcast using a question, fiction author, and she would attend a lot of question and fiction events. Not sorry, not a question events. There was no fiction authors there. There should be the only fiction author there, right? Or one of the only. So you’re in a group of there’s readers there, especially there’s a lot of people interested in horses and she’s writing question and fiction. So again, makes a lot of sense. Yeah. But there’s definitely an opportunity for me. I’m like, Oh, I could go to meetups of entrepreneurs and science people. Cause that’s like what I write. Like I don’t necessarily write the science fiction that does well at cons. I’m more like the near future technology type stuff. So no, that’s just super inspiring. And let’s pretend like we’ve mapped out our first event to go to, or maybe a couple, although you probably should start with just one. And we’ve done the math where hopefully we’ll break even hopefully this is money we can lose too, because weather can actually ruin an event day in terms of the show up. So you definitely don’t want to spend money you don’t have. So starting small is good, but how do I prepare for my first event? What goes into that process? So you’re gonna want to, first off, find out what the event is providing for you. So most small events will not provide your table. If it’s an outdoor event, you need a tent. You want to make sure and figure out what your booth size is, too, because that’ll vary a lot. Sometimes you’ve got a full 10×10 situation. A lot of times you have a 6×6 or, I’m sorry, a 4×6. Table, and that’s it. And so if they’re not providing tables and chairs and tents and things like that, you need to make sure you have those. You’re gonna want table dressings. So some kind of tablecloth. Whether it’s branded or just a simple black covering you don’t want a bare table. That’s gonna look just terrible. Terrible. You want, you definitely need to be able to draw people in with a good visual, and so having that table dressing and then some display kind of stuff, you need to figure out what all you’re going to be selling so obviously you’ll have print books. Print books are the thing that is going to sell the most at a, at an event. And so you’ll want to make sure that you can display those properly. So I have these little stamps that my books can sit in and then What I’ll do is I’ll prop up one of each book and then, or actually just the first in series, I’ll prop up one of each of those and then I’ll have the rest of the series kind of array in front of it. And then I also have I have some cute little like string lights that I’ll arrange on the table. I have this like wooden crate that kind of creates some visual interest and some levels, so one book can be on top of that and the rest can be on the table and that kind of creates, that visual interest, you’re gonna want probably some kind of identification of yourself. So I use like a stand up banner that has, a picture of one of my books and says, fantasy author Anna McCluskey. A lot of people will just do a table runner that has their information on it which can be good if you don’t have a lot of space. Usually I can finagle putting the banner like in front of my table if I don’t have a lot of space, but then of course that cuts off part of your table. So I do recommend setting up in your house a little bit, like before, like a few days before your, or, Actually, probably more than that, because you might need to buy stuff maybe a month before your event. Just set up your table and figure out how you want it, so you can know what all you can, you’ll need to buy. You’ll need to figure out how many books to bring, so Talking to the organizer of the event and finding out how many people there are going to be is key Because some events you’re gonna sell 50 books and some events you’re gonna sell 10, and so Hopefully more than 10, but you’re gonna want to figure that out You’re gonna want to decide if you want to bring just your first in series or if you want to bring full series I started out just bringing book one and then after a few events, I would have people come up and go, Oh hey, I bought book one at such and such event, can I get book two? And so, I’ve started bringing extras, and you also will get people who want to buy full series too, it’s not as many. But, so decide if you, how you want to do that. And you’ll always sell more of book one though, so always bring more book one than the rest. I usually just bring ten each of the rest of the series. So to be very clear about that ratio, you’re bringing for every 10 of book 1, let’s say I’m bringing just 10 book 1 to a con or event. How much of the later series should I bring? First off, I would bring more than 10 of book 1. No, but I’m getting a ratio, because it’s for an event, they also like, four every ten. I would say if I was bringing ten of book one, and anticipating that amount of sales, and I have two series right now, so I would bring, ten of A Curse of the King of Corkscrew and ten of Magic Today, I would probably bring two each of the rest of each series. Okay, so that, that’s about the sell through you get from book one to book two, at least up front. Yeah. That is twenty perc Yeah, that, that seems about right. Usually I’ll actually bring more like 20 of each of book one and these are for smaller events. And then I think five of each of the. The rest of the book and I do try to keep that inventory on hand. So when I do an event, I will immediately order everything that I sold to have it for the next event. And that works really well for me because I’ve, I’ve got that money right there, and I’m just gonna put it right back in there, and then the rest is profit. And then that’s print books. If you’re not in KU, you can sell ebooks at events. You’re not gonna sell as many, but there will be people who come up and go, Oh, is it available on Kindle? I’ll go check you out on Amazon. And if you can say, actually, no, you can buy it right here and now. They will, and that’s that’s money you wouldn’t have if you didn’t have those. So what I do is I have little cards that have the book cover on them, and then on the back they have a download code from BookFunnel, and so I just sell the card for 5 and then, if they buy the full series, they’ll get a discount, but and you will, people will be more likely to buy the full series in ebook because it’s cheaper. But I do sell full series pretty frequently with print books, especially since I started. I do a little bundle of them that I like wrap up and ribbon really pretty. So it’s like a visual Hey, you can buy the full series and they go, Oh, Hey, look at that. It’s a full series. And then you give them a little discount and that works really well. No, that’s super smart. And it gets me thinking talking about like whole series. a lot of times we hear as authors oh, don’t run Facebook ads until you have like at least three books because you’re not going to be profitable. These are just things I’ve heard go around the author community. In reality there’s a, Degree of truth that it’s somewhat hard to break one on paid ad break even on paid ads for book one. Obviously, a lot of authors ask the same questions about getting started in subscriptions and the answer is like having more books helps, but oftentimes descriptions are based around serialized early access. So people are really there for the new content. Anyways, there’s always like these different rules and things and there’s never no one right answer. So with that caveat, do you recommend authors have More than one book published before going to an event. Don’t think that’s necessary. Because, like I said, first off, you’re going to sell more of book one regardless. And if you just have one book, that seems fine. You’re going to want to figure out how to fill in the rest of your table. But, I think a lot of people coming to events would probably, and this is all speculation because I did not start out with just one book, but I think a lot of people would be really excited to see that you’re just starting out and I think that would bring people to really want to support you. If you just have one book and then you talk about maybe more books that you’re going to come out with and you’re excited about it, I think people would be really into that of Again, it’s that relatability, they’re connecting with you as a person who’s similar to them. And, if you’re just starting out that’s exciting, I think. Okay. Yeah. No, that’s really good to hear. And especially hearing that ratio of the sales from book one and book two and three it makes sense. And that’s exciting. And now when we get to the actual event day, you were before, we’re already mentioning some of your advice about like, asking a question that’s like introductory and a little bit more general so you can spark conversations with people. But what would be like Anna’s event playbook for running a booth? Are you supposed to stand in front of the booth? Is that intimidating? Do you sit down at the booth? Obviously some folks might have, abilities where they need to be sitting down and totally understand that. But what would be how you go about doing that? I stand up behind my table. I don’t see anybody standing in front of their table. I don’t, I think that would just confuse people probably because you don’t seem like you’re the vendor. It might work for somebody maybe because it’s unusual, but that’s not what I do. I stand behind the table and I do stand the entire time. Usually, I’ll sit down for a few minutes here and there when I just need a break. But I think that standing gives me that appearance of high energy. And it’s easier to reach out to people and you’re on their level. But I see a lot of vendors and authors sitting and still selling quite a lot. So I think if you have, mobility issues or you just don’t feel comfortable standing or you just want to stand for part of it and sit for part of it, I think you can still do that. I don’t think that’s a problem. And I just know that when I was selling food at like festivals and things like that, standing always worked. But I think with books it’s a little bit different because you’re still gonna draw the people in who want the books. But I do stand, and I do talk to people and I, call out to them as they walk by and I say, Hey, do you, how do you feel about fantasy books? And When they come up, and they’re like, I love fantasy, I go, I write fantasy, and that always gets a little chuckle, and then I go Would you say you’re more into like funny books, or like action y books, and I base my next recommendation on that. So if somebody says they want funny books, then I always, say, hey, you would really love my Rhymes with Witch series. If they say they want action y books, then I go to my Mid Till the Holiday series. If they say they want like a little blend of each, then I tell them, I Matilda Holiday, because it’s, got a little bit of humor. If they say, I only read romance books, I go, Hey, there’s a really cute romantic subplot in this book, so you generally fit your elevator pitch to what they respond. And if somebody says I like all of it, I go, Alright, I’m gonna give you a lot of information now, how do you feel about that? And, they usually, again, get a chuckle, and then I give them my blurb of each, it’s, I say blurb, it’s not the blurb that’s on the back of the book, it’s my specific spiel that I use at events, which is very repetitive, and you will have to memorize something, and you will be saying the same things over and over again, and it does get a little tedious, but remember that they haven’t heard it before, long as you can keep it fresh for each person, so just still maintain that level of excitement about your books find a way to do that, whether that’s mixing up the words a little bit each time, whether that’s connecting what they’ve already said to what you’re about to say, and just keep it fresh. You got to keep it fresh because it’s fresh for them. So I do my spiel. If they seem really interested in a specific book, I tell them to pick it up and read the back. And they usually will do that. And if they don’t seem at all interested in buying, but they seem interested in my books, I do have a that I have propped up on a thing that has, my reader magnet with a QR code and then QR codes for my Facebook, Instagram, Reem, Kickstarter. I used to give out bookmarks with all of that information, and I found that people didn’t End up scanning those codes because I think, it just gets lost in their pocket purse, tote bag, whatever. But if you have it on a poster board and they can do it right then and there, they’re a lot more likely to do it. And that’s been a lot more effective for me. I do usually still have bookmarks with me because sometimes somebody will go, oh, I don’t have my phone on me, or it’ll be an older person and I don’t know how to use these QR codes, and then I’ll give them a bookmark. then they feel special because, I tell them the bookmarks are just for people like them. And so then, that’s you always have to be aware that not everyone at an event is going to buy the books right then and there’s going to be a tail of the event. And so getting people to scan those codes, getting people on your newsletter list, and you should have a newsletter list that is specifically for events, or at least a, an automated What’s the word? An automated sequence, if they join at an event that says, things like, hey, it was really great to meet you as opposed to, oh, you’ve got this book that you downloaded from a cross promo, you want it to be specific to events and then, If they’re local, then it’s good to have another list that tells them about other local events, that they can go to and see you. Especially if they didn’t buy the book, but maybe they want to, and I always tell people to oh, scan this code, it’ll get you on my newsletter, you’ll get all the information. You can unsubscribe at any time, I won’t notice. That always gets a chuckle, too. So I think being personable and having these kind of built in jokes that again, you’ve said them a million times, but they haven’t heard it really helps create that kind of persona of author that they want to connect with. Yeah, no, that’s super important. And everything like the follow up to is amazing advice. I, one thing I am curious about and I don’t know if this gets easier over time, but obviously not everyone is going to buy your book, as you mentioned but also you mentioned calling out to people as they go by, which seems very smart and they are walking through the vendor booth. So you would think, they’re there, but I’ve gone to a lot of arts and crafts fairs and. Yeah. Lots of different events and signings. And, that seems to be like the best strategy because you’re going to get the most people to see you because they’re going to know about you. You’re being open and friendly, but a lot of people I know at these events, because it’s hard, right? You create something beautiful, you have your thing, whether it’s art, whether it’s a story, and you might just be sitting back there, like you said, a little bit more timid. The advantage of that is that you’re probably not getting rejected. In your case, I imagine that there have been moments, probably every single time you do it, where you get rejected, someone moves on, someone goes, eh, no thank you. How do you deal with that? Because I imagine that’s not a good feeling. It’s not like a happy thing. It’s fine. Like you say, not everybody’s gonna for one thing, not everybody is going to appreciate my specific brand, I’m writing for a specific audience, and if that person is not in my audience, that’s not personal. I’m not gonna take that personally. That’s just, they’re not my people, and they’re gonna move on and buy, I don’t know, a necklace from the guy next to me, whatever. That’s fine. Yeah, I just, I don’t take it personally. If that makes sense. And I think that you just need to realize that if you’re gonna do events, is that you’re not gonna be everybody’s cup of tea. And that even if you are somebody’s cup of tea, They might have already spent a lot of money at that event, and maybe they don’t have any left, or they’re, there’s a lot of times too, especially at the bigger cons, where people will come by on day one, and they’re not buying anything that day, they want to see everything, and a lot of times they’ll tell you they’re going to come back, and they won’t. And that one kind of stings sometimes. But, a lot of times they do come back. And you gotta think about too, again, that tail. There’s also been events where, like local events, where I’ve seen people three or four times before they’ve bought my books. And if you just keep putting yourself out there there’s gonna be a certain percentage of people who are gonna buy them. And sometimes, You If you recognize people and you’re just, Hey, I saw you at the Market for the Strange last month. Now you’re here at the Yokai Market. That’s so cool. How are you doing? A lot of times they’ll appreciate that, and they’ll come and talk to you again, and eventually they will buy a book. And that kind of feels good, because, you’re putting that work out, and you’re connecting with that person, and they appreciate it. I think that makes a difference. I love that you’re mentioning that like you’ve experienced people who take multiple events where they you know they’ve maybe come to your booth multiple times to talk to you and it takes a couple times to actually buy from you. That to me Is all plays into this followup that you’re doing as well. And one of the biggest things I think we sometimes don’t do as authors. We’re so focused on what is the upfront sale we can get? We just got up in a reader. What can we get? What is that bundle? We can sell them and all that’s great. Like we should be doing, of course, really all the actual money and marketing is made in following up with people, whether that’s being in front of people multiple times by going multiple events, but that’s getting them on your mailing list and being able to follow up with them or like you’re doing, obviously doing it all. And. What I now want to ask is, so someone buys your book at an event, buys your books plural. Obviously you’re coming out with new books. Obviously they, most people aren’t going to buy your entire catalog at an event, your entire backlist. It happens. It’s rare. Yeah. It happens. It’s rare. Most people don’t. But you want them to eventually read all of your stories. That’d be great. How do you work people through the rest of your ecosystem? Like I know you’re doing Kickstarters, I know you have a Ream is, do people from events tend to buy more from you? Do, have they subscribed to Ream? Do they support your Kickstarters? Or is it more like Event people, for lack of better words, are their own little ecosystem. I think for the most part, yeah, they’re their own ecosystem. I do put a little card in the back of each of my first in series that with a QR code that links to a Non listed page on my website that if you bought this book at this event you can buy the rest of the series for a discount And I do tell people about that Every time to be honest I don’t get as many people taking me up on it as I thought I would when I first started it I do get some but interesting I don’t know. But I do make sure to tell people about upcoming books. I do make sure to tell people you can find my books anywhere you would buy books. I tell them Amazon, Barnes Noble, Powles. com, all the places. Powles, I’m in Oregon um, wherever they would normally buy books. And I think that, I hope that people do, there’s really no way for me to track that except for people coming up and going Oh, hey. Yes. I bought your books on such and such a site and I have had people tell me that but You just got to give them the information and hope they take you up on it. I do have people following me on Kickstarter from events and I have recognized names on Kickstarter of people who I know I met at events. So there’s a little bit of crossover there. I think I’ve gotten followers on Ream from events. I don’t think I’ve gotten any followers from, or any subscribers from events that I know of. I have gotten subscribers from Kickstarter or who discovered me first on Kickstarter and then moved to Ream. And still support my Kickstarters, which is cool, because they’re already getting the stuff from Ream alright, I’ll take it. But, Yeah, I think, just like Amazon is its own ecosystem, just like, Yeah, I think events are their own ecosystem. So focusing on keeping people coming to events might be really the best tail, and just giving them the information of where else they can buy them. One thing I’ve thought about doing I haven’t done it yet, but is doing like a little punch card that I give out at events of hey, if you see me at another one, I’ll give you a punch. And then at the end, I haven’t decided maybe like a piece of merch or Even a free book if they, fill up their card. I don’t know. It’s just a thought in progress No, that’s super. Yeah, that’s a great thought Yeah, because the more times they interact with you if they’re like one of your people they’re gonna ultimately end up liking you more I want to support you more And tell more of their friends people in life about it So yeah, that’s a really cool way to gamify that a little bit I love it. This is awesome, Anna. You really gave us a mini master class on how to do events. And now I’m sure just like me, folks are wondering where can we find you? Why, where can we maybe not. We’re going to not show up to your events, but. Maybe not, but they could, I’m like, I don’t know if we want to like, encourage everyone to like, go to Anna’s booth, that would be like, fun and nice, but don’t be be nice to everyone, but real talk, where can we find you online? So I have my website, Anna McCluskey. com. I have a Reem page. Again, Anna McCluskey. And Kickstarter, I’m, very active there. And then, I, my books are wide all the places. Love it. That’s easy to find. I’ll be sure to link to your site in the description. And if y’all are looking to come to our event, where, There won’t be any intimidating booths or, people who will not your people are going to be here. Their people are going to be at the Scriptures for Others Summit, and that’ll be taking place May 6th and 7th in Boston in person. So definitely be sure that if you haven’t yet gotten your ticket, now is definitely the time. If we haven’t picked a date and we want to close down ticket sales, but We’ll probably will at least at some point, a couple. Weeks before that event, because we want to make sure we have final tallies on things. So definitely get in now while you can. And if you want to come to the virtual summit, hang out with your people virtually, that’s going to be a lot of fun. We have some amazing speakers. Everyone from Kat T Mason will be speaking virtually, even Ellis. We’ve got Elena Johnson in person, Seth Ring, Christopher Hopper in person. Just amazing group of people. And you’ll get to hang out with everyone. We hope to see you all there. Anna, thank you for not only sharing with us all your amazing advice here today, but also helping to lead this event. So, huge thank you. And to everyone listening, I hope you have a great rest of your day. As always, happy writing. And don’t forget, storytellers rule the world.