Posted on November 22, 2023
In this episode, we dive into Abby Goldsmith’s insights on serials, her decade-long publishing expedition, and the evolution of her magnum opus. Discover how her journey from gaining her first thousand followers on Railroad led to securing a publishing deal and releasing her debut book.
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#59 Episode Outline:
00:00:00 Introduction
00:02:09 Abby’s Beginnings As an Indie Author
00:02:58 Getting Critiqued by George R. Martin
00:04:13 Abby’s Path to Royal Road Serialization
00:06:62 Navigating the Path to Discoverability from Railroad to Subscription Platforms
00:08:20 Crafting Epic Sagas: From Inception to Royal Road Release
00:09:31 Seven Years on Wattpad: Persistence and Passion in the Writing Marathon 00:13:56 Abby’s Advice
00:14:43 Engaging Strategies: Wattpad vs. Royal Road Community Dynamics
00:17:14 Sustaining Engagement: Tactics for Keeping Readers Hooked Across Hundreds of Serial Chapters
00:18:39 Podcasting for Sci-Fi & Fantasy: The Evolution and Insights from Hosting ‘Story for Nerds
00:21:37 From Royal Road to Podcast to Published: Podium Audio Publishing
00:27:06 Holding Your Magnus Opus
00:29:23 Abby’s Patreon
00:35:40 Abby’s Advice #2
00:36:41 Conclusion
#59 Episode Transcript:
Michael Evans: Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of the Subscriptions for Authors podcast. I’m in Vegas! That’s partially why it’s loud, but it’s 20 books week and we have a really exciting podcast with Abby Goldsmith all about getting her first thousand followers on Railroad, her journey in serials, and her incredible publishing journey over the last decade, right in her magnum opus, and then what’s happened in the last year as she’s She’s been able to get a publishing deal, her first book’s out now, all because of her incredible progress and growth on the material fiction, using Railroad.
She also has a subscription. Abby’s amazing. So inspiring talking to her. So I hope you enjoy this episode. But, if you’re, if you’re new here… welcome to Scriptions for Authors podcast, we talk all about how to start and grow your subscription as a fiction author. Right now, I’m actually at 20 [00:01:00] Books Vegas, one of the biggest author conferences in the world.
And the fun thing is, we actually have our own conference all about subscriptions. It’s called the Scriptions for Authors Summit, and if you want to attend, you can find the link in the description at summit. scriptionsforauthors. com. We’re announcing the speakers. On December 9th, we might announce it a little early, we might announce it a little early, but December 9th is our current date where we’re gonna announce the speakers.
It’s gonna be so much fun, and early bird pricings available now. So I hope you check that out, and if you also haven’t read the descriptions for this book, it’s completely for free, and you can get it on our mailing list. So, you can sign up for below. You’ll enjoy. But hello to everyone who I met at 20 Books.
If you ever see me at a conference, I’d love to meet you. Love to give you a hug or shake hands or a fist bump. Whatever you’re into, I’m so excited to meet you. So great for all the support in the community. And I’ll catch you on the flip side of this podcast.
Michael Evans: Abby, I am so excited to chat with you today on the Descriptions for Others podcast. Now, I want to talk about how you’ve gotten your start on World Road and gained over a thousand followers. I think [00:02:00] it’s just such an amazing accomplishment.
But before we get there, I want to know how you got started off in the indie author space, because I know this is far from your first endeavor in a creative industry, far from your first endeavor.
Abby Goldsmith: Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, okay, like, I’ve always been a storyteller, and I’ve been writing since I was a child.
I mean, that’s just always been a thing. And I got sidetracked. I got an early rejection letter when I was 12. And I was like, Oh, I can’t be an author then, so I’m going to have to be a filmmaker. So, so I went to a school for animation, CalArts, and I made student films. They got into film festivals, and then I ended up working in video games.
And sometime around my 20s, I was like, Do I want to spend my life building other people’s dreams? Making lots and lots of Spongebob games. Or do I want to do my own stories, which is why I, I got into the creative industry in the first place. so then I started writing prose fiction again.
Michael Evans: What an amazing start.
And I, I saw that you had gotten your work personally critiqued by George or R. R. Martin, which just seems like I have to, I have to ask about that just to nerd out with you.
Abby Goldsmith: Yeah, that was that was really [00:03:00] awesome. That was a highlight of my time. The at the odyssey fantasy writing workshop So this was a while ago before the HBO show came out so he wasn’t that big a name yet He was he was a well known author but not superstar level and I was a big fan And I saw that he was gonna be teaching at that workshop.
So they accept 16 students per year and I was one of them And I was like, all right, yeah, so yeah, he critiqued the first chapter of an early draft of majority, actually and he really liked it. He gave a really positive, like, he, he went on for about an hour. I mean, I wish I had recorded it, but this was before, like, easy recording with cell phones.
It was before smartphones. I didn’t record it.
Michael Evans: Wow, no, I can only yeah, that’s definitely a moment. I think the person who like I’ve had who like I’ve really admired was one of Veronica Roth’s basically her lit agent had critique one of my work for workshop. I did. And that was like a big nerd out moment for me.
Cause like, I just, oh, my God, I love Veronica. Roth is one of the people got me into writing. Like, if it wasn’t for like, hunger games. And then, of course, diversion when she wrote, so it was one of those moments. [00:04:00] So I’m totally with you there, but obviously you go from, Okay. Nickelodeon game content writing to then publishing on railroad.
And I’m curious, what got you to start serializing there? What made you feel like Royal road was a good platform for you?
Abby Goldsmith: Yeah, I mean, that was interesting to I had heard really good things about it for years from mostly from kind of, you know, I worked in video games. So guys that were a little bit on maybe on the autistic spectrum.
A lot of programmers were reading on Royal Road. And I’d been hearing about it, but I always like kind of dismissed it in my mind, like, ah, it’s probably just some silly website that’s not really worth looking at, which I regret now. That was really dismissive. yeAh. And so anyway, so I kept aiming for big five traditional publishing.
I wanted the big deal. And I slowly just began to realize they weren’t going to ever buy what I was selling. Like they’re not looking for certain things. And I think like epic heroic fiction is one of those things. So I was like, well, all right, they don’t want like really heroic kind of Swashbuckling [00:05:00] chosen one heroes.
That’s just not in right now. And so yeah, I started to serialize online and I looked at Wattpad first because Wattpad had such a big audience. It had like 96 million users or something at the time. Yeah. So I was like, well, clearly I need to go on Wattpad. And and I had a friend who is a fantasy romance author that was doing really well on there.
And so she spoke very highly of it. So I was like, Oh, well, I’ve got to go on Wattpad. And and I did, and I did get a pretty good audience on there, actually. And it was fun. I started, I started to really love, that’s when I started to love serialization. I was like, well, this is great. I’m getting like people voting on my chapters and commenting and the fans talk to each other.
So the community, the community was there. Yeah. But Wattpad, like, they kind of, they, they’ve kind of become a very big corporation, and they kind of are doing the big corporate thing now, where discovery is kind of broken on the platform, and it’s not as good as it was, and I think there’s still some opportunities there, especially if you write romance, but yeah, sci fi fantasy is very difficult there.
So. I kept, and then of [00:06:00] course I kept hearing, like, just lately in the last three or four years, there are authors on Royal Road that were earning a full time living, like using Royal Road as a launching pad. And then they were like, Oh, well, you know, I sell my advanced chapters on Patreon and I make six figures a year.
And I was like, okay, so something’s happening there that is not happening on Wattpad and I better find out. Yeah.
Michael Evans: Yeah. No, you’re definitely right about the The railroad to subscription pipeline, even into like KU and Audible and everything. people have done tremendous coming out of railroad. But for you getting started on railroad, you’ve had an amazing start there as well.
But talk to me about how you got started in a little bit about the platform, because I know like Wattpad discovery is broken, but obviously. With that statement, I’m getting the idea that on Royal Road, it’s not quite as broken. It’s maybe better. So, how have you found Discovery on Royal Road? Both, you know, qualitatively, how have you found it, but then also, how did you actually do it?
Abby Goldsmith: Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah, so I studied it. Like, I was really, before I launched on it, I looked at it, you know, I joined a bunch of discords that [00:07:00] were Royal Road authors, and I kept asking them questions. I dug into the forums there. I was looking at what the successful authors were doing. And just how exactly you can hit success there.
And you know, the number one thing is you’ve got to hit the rising stars list. That is what brings you visibility. And to hit that, you’ve got to rapid release your chapters. So, you know, if you have a big backlog, that’s like a superpower on Royal Road. And that that’s pretty much all everyone was saying, and I was sitting there thinking, well, I have that.
I mean, I wrote 500 chapters, I mean, I can easily, I can keep pumping out chapters for years without any trouble. And that was actually kind of funny, because I would tell that to people on railroad, like the authors there, and they’d be like, Oh, no, I have to write faster. And I was like. No, I didn’t just start this over the weekend.
Like, this has been a thing that’s been for years for me. Yeah, but there’s a lot of competition there to write fast.
Michael Evans: Yeah, So, when I talk to your writers, it’s always like, what’s your strategy? How many chapters ahead are you and what’s your release schedule and 500 chapters ahead is a totally other level talking about [00:08:00] this because you obviously have your Torth you know universe your Torth world it’s you’ve been working on this for years like now I’m curious like tell me how it was starting on that series and then Royal Road seems to be the first place you released it so there seems to be like a big gap of time between starting to work on it and then the first release and I would love to know a bit what happened in the middle.
Yeah,
Abby Goldsmith: well, honestly, a lot of that was serialism. I serialized it on Wattpad at about one chapter per week. Okay. So that took seven years. , you were on
Michael Evans: Wattpad for seven years. ,
Abby Goldsmith: yes. Oh wow. Okay. I know. Under the radar, right? Yeah, it’s funny because. That’s what’s interesting is doing it over that long a period of time, it’s like, I still have readers that are fans that were reading with it for all that time, but some people come and go like people graduate college, they get their life happens and you know, so there were people kind of picking it up and putting it down.
But there were definitely readers that stuck with it for the entire seven years to,
Michael Evans: I mean, yeah. That’s so on, on Wattpad did, because so many authors I talked to, [00:09:00] like, I mean, first of all, like, huge congratulations on sticking with it for seven years. It’s a huge accomplishment. But also with that, how did you stick with it for seven years?
Because a lot of authors I talked to, They really want to blow up, right? They really want to be huge. So not getting to like thousands and thousands of wattpad followers after like a year or maybe two years might discourage someone and you stuck with it for like seven years while I’m sure you still had a day job and other things going on in your life.
How were you staying consistent for that long? Cause that’s. That’s a, beyond a feat, that’s like an ultra marathon.
Abby Goldsmith: Yeah, I, I mean, I’m just kind of crazy that way. Like I still have a day job. I mean, so I really, this, this story is kind of a magnum opus story for me and I’ve always wanted to tell it.
And honestly, so I was shopping around that book, book one majority to traditional big five agents and so forth for years, even before I started on Wattpad. And. Yeah, I mean, I was, I was kind of beating myself up. I was in a dark place during that time. I was like, you know, I was like, well, this is failure.
I can’t fail. That’s [00:10:00] impossible. I’m an overachiever. So I mean, I feel like there’s kind of a type of person that sometimes is like this and I’m that type, which is like 4. 0 student you know, top of the class, like valedictorian type of type of time. I just I can’t fail. So, like, to me, Accepting failure was a major, major roadblock for me.
I just couldn’t do it. So yeah, I just refused. I was like, no, impossible. And that’s so, so anyway, that, yeah, that got me stuck for a long time where I was rewriting book one again and again, and, you know, rewriting my query letter 800 times. And finally, when I started serializing, that’s when I finished the rest of the series.
And I was so encouraged by all the reader reactions, not to mention my husband. So, so I met my husband around 10 or 11 years ago. And yeah, so he’s a reader. He’s a big fan of like a lot of the books I’m a fan of and he loves my work. So that helped that kind of encouragement really helped.
Michael Evans: Wow. Okay. That’s first of all, thank you for being open about that. I’ve personally had very similar struggles where I’m like you definitely, I would say [00:11:00] overachiever type, definitely. And I always want to be you know, doing the best at what I do. And, you know, also like love building these big worlds and like, you It’s tough when you put your heart and soul into something and it doesn’t, pay off the way you want it to immediately or on the timescale you want.
And you can feel like, you are, a piece of trash sometimes. Like, I know I felt that, so I say that, like, being there. And… To be honest, like, it, having like actual kind words of encouragement from other people, knowing that, like, even if it’s just a few people, I’m not out there alone, like, I’m writing with others that actually care about this story, you know, that, that is one of the biggest benefits, as a writer, to, to serials, and I am I’m really happy that you were able to, like, jump into Wattpad, jump into serials, and, like, have that give you energy to keep going, because, clearly this Magnus, Magnum Opus of yours has had tremendous likes, people are loving it, and you now have written much more than just one book you are at, at least six that I know are gonna be out over the next couple years, which is tremendous.
Abby Goldsmith: Yeah, thank you. it’s that it was [00:12:00] it’s 1. 1 million words and it’s a fully written pre written series. So I’m actually really proud of the result because I feel like a lot of authors, they serialize or they write a series without knowing how it’s going to end or without a very clear idea of it.
And then once they have an audience or a publisher, they’re locked in to the direction of the story. Has taken and they can’t go back. Yeah. And I feel like that’s kind of what happened with George R. R. Martin and like a lot of other authors and with mine though, like, because I really had a pretty small audience.
I was able to retroactively go back. And I mean, I had probably a good 100 readers or so by by books, 6 and 7, which 7 I’m saying 7. There’s actually 6 that are going to be published because I combined 2 of them. Okay. Yeah, but yeah, old habit. So it was seven for a long time. But anyway, yeah, it was the last few books, basically.
Yeah, I had some audience there. And I actually, on Wattpad, I changed the names of the main characters, halfway through. Wow. That’s cool.
Michael Evans: Yeah. Yeah. Maybe not. [00:13:00] I imagine that took some time to go back unless I guess if you were writing in like word and like, you know, wherever you’re talking was, you could just control that.
But in Wattpad, you probably had to go back to each chapter, right? And take it out. I,
Abby Goldsmith: and I didn’t for years. So, so I just basically put a note, like on book four, like at the beginning saying, sorry, you know, the characters, you know, as Alex is now Ariok and, you know, so forth. And I had to just. And I, I got a couple of people that were a little pissed off, but mostly they rolled with that because they know that it’s, you know, it’s Wattpad.
Michael Evans: No, that’s actually smart. That’s a good tip. Like, if you make a big change and you like going back and updating, it’s going to be too much. Just tell them, hey, you know, this has changed. Now let’s continue. I like, yeah, I like that. No, no. And now, like, on Railroad, you’ve gotten well over a thousand followers there.
Which is, I know, a mark that a lot of, like, that’s a big mark that a lot of authors want to hit. You’ve had hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people you know, reads on that platform. What would be your advice for someone who also wants to reach 1, 000 followers
Abby Goldsmith: on Royal Road? I mean, the backlog really is key.
So I’m actually writing a [00:14:00] new series now, and I’m going to do it again. Like my plan is to launch on a Royal Road again, and I’m building backlog. I’m probably going to not launch until I have 100 chapters written.
Michael Evans: Yeah, that that takes discipline. But I also think like, it’s a good strategy, you’ll you’ll be able to get out the first 10 very quickly for rising stars.
Have you found, like, I know in Wattpad advice that Amelia has given a lot, my co-host on the podcast is responding to comments, being helpful, things of that nature. But I know that the community is on Wattpad and railroad tend to be different. So they’re different , they, they are definitely different. So how have you found that aspect of it?
Like if responding to comments important on railroad and engaging with the community in that way? Or is it just continuing to write the chapters more? Like what do you find has also worked in addition to like, you know, hitting the rising stars, like to help.
Abby Goldsmith:
yeah, I mean, to be honest, I was a little shocked when I first started on Royal Road because seven years on Wattpad, everyone was super supportive, really, really nice. Comments were great. On Royal Road, I got like this 14 year old boy peanut gallery where, you know, [00:15:00] they were like, he should go murder hobo.
Why isn’t he just murdering everyone? I don’t understand. I hate this, you know, like talking about raping characters and stuff. And I was like, you know, calm down. My God, yeah. So, so yeah, like I was a little shocked, but some of these, to be honest, like it was really only one or two really bad players, really bad commenters and the other commenters would kind of like shout them down after a while.
So those comments kind of take care of themselves in some ways, or you can block them.
Michael Evans: Can, yeah, can you, as the author, like block comments and make it so that other people can’t
Abby Goldsmith: see them? You can yeah, you can block the user. You can block comments that I probably should have for one of them and I didn’t.
But he left on his own.
Michael Evans: I’m not getting a reaction here. So maybe I should just spend my energy doing something else.
Abby Goldsmith: Yeah. Yeah. But the other aspect of all that, I realized that, so a lot of the readers on Royal Road, they come from the, Japanese light novel, kind of, and manga readers, and cozy fantasy, so they like lighthearted, silly stuff, for the most part, and I’ve been writing very dark, very heavy stuff, and so they [00:16:00] weren’t prepared for that, and The comments kind of reflected that, like they were like, this is really dark.
This is really, really dark. I don’t like this. This is like a nuclear bomb going off in my head. I can’t stand it, you know, and so basically I had to start putting warnings all over it. I put like warnings on the on the front page, like saying, you know, there are no easy wins. The characters are going to get beaten up quite a lot in the first book.
This is grimdark. This is dark. You know, I just had to put warnings all over it for myself. Yeah,
Michael Evans: I actually really like that strategy because when you’re like really upfront with readers about what they’re going to get, like, sure, you’re going to turn some away who are like, no, I’m not here for that.
But you’d rather turn the ones who are not going to be happy way and just keep the ones in who are like, actually, this is exactly what I was looking for. That’s exactly what you want. So I think that’s good that you learned that. And then we’re like, I’m going to change that in the front end. Yeah, that’s huge.
What did you also see? Because one of the big things, like, I mean, you literally have hundreds. And hundreds of chapters in your serial up on Railroad. How have you been able to keep readers [00:17:00] engaged, over time throughout the story? Is there any sort of plotting techniques or story structure or writing tactics that you have to be able to hook readers and keep them into your serial for literally, at this point, it would probably take a, even a really fast reader, like, dozens of hours
Abby Goldsmith: to finish.
Oh, yeah, sadly, it’s, it’s a big series for sure. Yeah, I mean, I think really, for me personally, I really like shifting interpersonal power dynamics. So, you know, some of my favorite series are like, Wheel of Time, Other Land. You know, Game of Thrones, like those kind of series where you have like a large cast of characters and you have like very highly dynamic shifting interpersonal power plays going on.
And so, yeah, the reader is going to be invested because they’re like, okay, well, is this this victim character ever going to, finally overthrow their oppressor, you know, that sort of thing.
Michael Evans: Yeah, no, no, no, no. I love it. It’s something that Kimbu York, who has been on this podcast before. And she recently wrote a book all about plotting serials, talks all about like the overlapping short [00:18:00] arcs that you have going on, getting people invested in the different characters, that there’s always something, even if you’ve closed up one loop, there’s always something to want to keep coming back for.
Yeah, I know that. That’s, brilliant. And on top of all of this, I know that you also are the co host of a podcast, and not just any podcast, but a podcast really for science fiction and fantasy lovers, both readers, and it seems like you all also do content focused on manga, Fragment, and a bunch of other things.
So, talk to me about You know how that came to be it seems like the podcast it’s called story for nerds has been going on for a very long time now so talk to me about how that podcast has been how you’ve been able to keep up with that And what you’ve learned throughout that process?
Abby Goldsmith: Yeah. I mean, honestly, this is just kind of a labor of love podcast So it’s it’s conversational style and I met my two co hosts at the superstars writing seminar, which is yeah.
Yeah Yep. So that’s, that’s something that’s run every year in Colorado and it’s like a three day seminar [00:19:00] and I recommend it. It’s, it’s worth going to. So yeah, we met there and we, we just were like, let’s do this. It sounded like a good idea.
Michael Evans: Oh my gosh. So you started the podcast and throughout running the podcast, has it been something that, cause I know a lot of authors have.
Thought about starting podcasts have, you know, enjoyed listening to podcasts. Is this something that’s been able to help you in your writing career? And if
Abby Goldsmith: so, how? Yeah. I mean, so honestly I’m not so sure it’s really, I wish I could say, yeah, definitely. Some podcasts, I think, I don’t know. But. It’s, it’s just like, I think it’s a good way to, keep your name out there to, possibly get more of an audience.
I mean, it’s, it’s been worth doing. I mean, for all of us, I think it’s, it’s kind of low effort. We’re not, like, putting a ton and ton of time and effort into this one. I’ve considered doing that. So I used to run a YouTube show for writers. Called aspiring sci fi fantasy writers on YouTube. Yeah, and and I’ve considered starting that up again as well But all of this stuff [00:20:00] takes time and time away from writing and all that.
So it’s kind of like you have to make trade
Michael Evans: offs Yeah, no, there’s definitely there’s always trade offs It’s it it’s impressive that you’ve been able to balance everything that you’re doing but it’s also important to just focus in on what you love and One thing that I wanted to ask before I shift to talking about your recent book release, which is super exciting, is I am super impressed by the character art on your website, like, it’s amazing.
And I’m just curious, like, did you make it? Did someone else make it? Like, it’s really good.
Abby Goldsmith: Thank you so much. Well, yeah, I’m the artist. Yeah, I went to school for animation, so I’m, I do have some art ability.
Michael Evans: No, you definitely have art ability. It’s amazing. Thank you. Just check out Abby’s website, link below, just to look at the character art, like Eloda’s.
Is worth the visit because I saw that and I was like, this is like exactly make animations this could all be part of a cartoon show. You could have your own cartoon show like right there.
Abby Goldsmith: Yeah. If I had 100 more years in my lifetime. Yep. Yeah,
Michael Evans: I know the time. I can definitely see, [00:21:00] too, that, you’ve built into your universe the ability to potentially be in other mediums.
Like, that would be a fun thing.
Abby Goldsmith: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I’m always joking. Like, I could have a theme park like Harry Potter, you know? Yeah, I don’t know. I think it would make a great adaptation, but
Michael Evans: Penny was listening, could adapt things. I mean, clearly someone was listening because I know that your book got published majority by podium audio.
Yes. That’s super exciting. So how has it been? Cause you, I mean, podium, let’s talk for right, you don’t, cause a lot of people might know like, Hey, I know what podium is. But a lot of people listening might not know what podium is. So how would you, first of all, describe. What podium is to an author who might not know?
Abby Goldsmith: Yeah. They are an up and coming indie publisher, so they’re not with the big five. The big five are mega conglomerates that own like some of the major imprints. And then there’s like small press publishers that kind of struggling. And they’re, they’re more or less, I’d say small press is a lot like self publishing in a lot of ways.
But a publisher like podium is kind of considered midsize and they. They do kind of some of what [00:22:00] indie publishers do and some of what the traditional publishers do. They’re kind of like a blend.
Michael Evans: Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I think it’s a really good way to describe it and Podium as well is pretty much just focused on audio to my knowledge.
No,
Abby Goldsmith: no, no, no, no, they they used to be but in the last couple of years they’ve been branching out into ebooks and print. Are they
Michael Evans: doing your eBooks or just your audio?
Abby Goldsmith: They’re doing my eBooks and print as well as audio. Yep. They did offer me the, the option to do just audio. And so they’re very flexible.
I think they’re great to work with. They’re very author friendly, you know, so they’re not, they’re like, I think like big five, they tend to just kind of give instructions on high and they’re like, this is how we’re going to do it. And the author has to do what they say. Podium is a little more flexible in a lot of ways.
So. You know, and, and there definitely are Royal Road authors who take the just audio deal so they can keep the royalties for the print and the ebook. And I personally chose to have them handle basically all the English world rights because it’s my magnum opus project and I just wanted it in professional hands.
Michael Evans: I understand.[00:23:00] Yeah. And how did you go from Royal Road to getting published by them? Did you submit to them? Did they approach you? How did that process work? You know, obviously once Podium offers you the deal, that’s amazing, but how did you actually get to that point?
Abby Goldsmith: Yeah, they did offer the deal. The way I see it, there’s a little bit of a feeding frenzy going in Royal Rove right now in the last couple years.
So there’s a bunch of publishers, Podium, Athon, and a number of others that they just look for authors that are hitting rising stars and gaining a lot of followers and they’ll make them an offer. Yep.
Michael Evans: Yeah. So that’s basically what happened to you. You just got scouted out by this and they offered you.
Wow. That’s super cool. I mean, huge congrats, first of all, on that. And I’m curious in the publishing timeline, because obviously you’re saying it’s like a hybrid between indie and trad, like from start to finish, because normally I know the trad cycle is like 18 ish months. I mean, it can be sped up for specific reasons, like a memoir that’s specifically timed, but generally 18 months.
What was the timeline like from like, you know, You signed the deal to now very recently, literally just a couple [00:24:00] weeks ago, your book was released. What was that time?
Abby Goldsmith: It’s a whirlwind of craziness. Yeah. So I have to say the entire process from starting on Royal Road to getting the deal to getting it published.
Whoa. This has been a year. I mean, it was like nonstop craziness and more than I expected because yeah, first of all, like serializing on Royal Road I thought, Oh, you know, I’ll, I’ll just put up a few chapters and then I can slow down if I need to. No, you cannot slow down. Once you put your foot on that accelerator, you have to keep pressing the accelerator, or you start losing readers.
So, they’re a very demanding audience on Royal Road. So basically, you know, I was, I was posting, I started out at an insane rate of four chapters per day. And, Yeah. And you’d think I was like, well, that’s a lot. I can slow down easily. Nope. Nope. I started to slow down and I started getting like really angry reviews and people complaining.
And I was like, Oh, well then, um, yeah. So keep that in mind. If you start on a railroad, like whatever pace you set, they’re going to expect
Michael Evans: it. So, and yeah, as far as expectations, because I know you’ve done a lot of research, like Four chapters days a lot. Like [00:25:00] what are other authors doing? Because I don’t know.
Yeah If you’re if you’re listening you don’t have to go do four chapters a day to succeed on railroad
Abby Goldsmith: No, you don’t that’s insane and don’t ever do it and I will never do that again
Michael Evans: So maybe a chapter every weekday or a few chapters a week is maybe more sustainable for folks
Abby Goldsmith: Yeah, well, to start out with, you probably should do a chapter per day at the very least.
But you can slow down after, and I did slow down to one chapter per day eventually.
Michael Evans: What was eventually? How many chapters were you in?
Abby Goldsmith: I was at least 200 chapters in, maybe 300. Wow. It was a lot. Yeah, so I, I finally took the brakes off once I’d, I’d gotten the podium deal. I was like, I had my Patreon going pretty well and all that and I was like, all right, I’m taking the breaks off no matter what.
I know everyone’s going to complain. I’m just, I can’t keep this pace up. I’m gonna like, I was like losing sleep. Yeah.
Michael Evans: So yeah, just, I can’t imagine. That’s, that’s so much just the [00:26:00] admin work involved. Nevermind like, you know, the editing, everything else that goes into it. So, and to be clear, so, because I know you just started on railroad, like this literally has all happened in this calendar year,
Abby Goldsmith: pretty much.
Yes, literally. Yeah. Like, so I started on railroad in like late December. Wow. That’s why. Yeah. Yeah. So I was like, all right, let’s see how this does on a real road. And it started to take off. And then, yeah, once it did that, I had to keep the foot on the accelerator. And then I got the offer from Podium in February.
So that was like two months later, or less than two months later, I think. Yeah. Yeah, and then from there to publication, it just came out, um, in September, so, and we’re talking full audiobook production, cover art, editing all of that, and I, yeah, they’ve had me edit do copy edits on books two, three, and four by now.
I’m looking at the cover art for book two, um, so, yeah, they’re So, They have a production schedule and they stick to it.
Michael Evans: That’s really cool that they were able to turn it around like that. And now that the first book has been out, you know, on the retailers, how, how has [00:27:00] that gone? How has it been to, I mean, first of all, I’m guessing this is the first time you’ve like actually held.
A copy of your book, right? That’s yeah.
Abby Goldsmith: Yeah. It’s definitely a crazy mixed bag. I’ve learned a lot from this experience. I mean, I was originally going to self publish it. So, I, I had different expectations originally, so, I was a little, I had some criticisms about the cover art, and, you know, I’m not sure if I was right or wrong on that.
Eh, but I mean, anyway, like, yeah, now as for how it’s taken off on Amazon, it’s not taken off the way I’d hoped, of course. I mean, I guess most authors want to see, you know, You know, a huge influx from Amazon, Kindle Unlimited. But there’s definitely all kinds of different factors involved there, and I’ve learned a lot about that.
You know, so there’s a lot to do with Amazon categories, there’s a lot to do with the way it’s being presented. And my book is weird, it’s like, it doesn’t quite fit in a normal genre. So, it’s not lit RPG. so Podium can do very well with selling lit RPG, military sci fi, and certain genres where they hit it squarely.
Mine is cross genre. It’s been kind of [00:28:00] sold as YA in some circles, and adult science fiction in other circles. So I think there’s some confusion about, the audience targeting, basically.
Michael Evans: Yeah, I mean, that’s interesting. Because it’s what, looking to your next series, right? How are you approaching the targeting categories, thinking through that?
is that something that you’re considering more heavily or? Yeah. I’m just curious how you’ve taken those learnings going forward. If that’s something you’ve even taken into account.
Abby Goldsmith: I mean, to some degree, but, but to be honest, like I write for fun. I write because I love it. And I want to tell the stories I want to tell.
So I don’t think I’m ever going to be a right to market author. I mean, I love reading too and I write the stories I want to read and I know there’s an audience for that. But targeting that audience, that can be tricky. Yeah.
Michael Evans: I mean, I love that you’re doing what you want to do.
That’s what matters. And definitely as you’re already proving, you don’t need to right to market to be successful. You know, the only thing is that if you do write to market, maybe it’s a little bit easier to package it, but you know, that’s, that’s okay. I personally really like your cover, but I understand how reader expectations can, you know, they have sort of things they expect in [00:29:00] covers and, or at least in the stories that embody those covers, but no, that is all very interesting.
And the one thing that I guess we saved till towards the end of this conversation, but your Patreon. I know right now you currently have 20 members on that. It seems to be doing really well. That’s a very healthy subscription, but talk to me about that because it.
I’m guessing that also was a product of this last year too, like, am I right about that? Well,
Abby Goldsmith: actually, no I started that on Wattpad. Okay, for a while. I, I started at the request of a reader on Wattpad, where they said, they said, I’ll pay any amount to read ahead, like, you know, something like, like, where’s your Patreon?
Why don’t you have a Patreon? You know, I was like, huh. I mean, I did write ahead. Maybe I should start a Patreon. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I did start it there and I got not that many because I just didn’t have that many readers on Wophead. But I did get a few and honestly, really supportive people that have been, I honestly think probably paying more than they could afford.
So I feel bad about that. I mean, but I guess that’s like the hazard of doing this. [00:30:00] So. Because the thing is like a lot of readers, especially on on serial platforms like these, they’re from other countries. So they’re not necessarily like in America or England, you know, anyway but, but yeah, like, It’s pretty cool. Yeah, that patron’s been going for a while. It’s definitely been a few years. Yeah.
Michael Evans: And have you seen those readers from Wattpad stick with you these years later or have some of them dropped off?
I mean, I’m sure some of them dropped off, but have they stuck with you through these years? They
Abby Goldsmith: have. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. No, I’ve gotten a really wonderful comments, really great emails. People telling me like, this is, there, a lot of them have said, this is the only reason they’re on Wattpad anymore.
Like I would have quit this app a long time ago otherwise.
Michael Evans: yeah, I feel like one, I think a lot of people have quit that app over the years but, but also too, that is really cool that you are one of the reasons they kept using it. And now they don’t have to use Wattpad. They could use plenty of other apps cause you have to raise your level in lots of different places, but that is, that is a really cool thing.
And then when you. Went to Royal Road. I’m guessing that’s when your Patreon started to grow.
Abby Goldsmith: Definitely. Yeah. So, [00:31:00] but Royal Road is kind of set up for that. That’s really their model, their business model.
Michael Evans: Yeah. Yeah. And you just did early access chapters, how much weeks ahead, like when you were, when you were leasing like these four chapters a day, like what were you promoting the subscription then?
What was the early access kind of timeline like during that period?
Abby Goldsmith: Yeah, I was. I was. So I’m very lucky that I am married to a web developer that is extremely good at writing scripts. So he was able to basically script it out so I could very easily post chapters to my website and to Patreon and to get rid of them on Wattpad as needed, you know, so with the press of a button, basically, so I didn’t have to do it chapter by chapter craziness.
Yeah. Oh,
Michael Evans: wow. that’s helpful. That is a very helpful
Abby Goldsmith: hack. I keep telling you we should sell these tools. There’s authors that would want them. Yeah,
Michael Evans: very, very cool. Just one, one click. No, that’s amazing. And then you got more people in early access. They’re still there now getting early access [00:32:00] for your next series.
Or
Abby Goldsmith: no, I’m still going. The tour series is still going. So
Michael Evans: there’s hundreds of hundreds happens and still go. Oh, my
Abby Goldsmith: God. Okay. So I actually did just in the last. I think about a month ago I ended it on Wattpad. I posted the final chapter on Wattpad. Okay. So that is now done. I’ve left it up on Wattpad for now.
I’m going to have to remove it at some point. And the reader is on Royal Road, or on the book before that one, right now.
Michael Evans: Okay, so they’re almost done, but not yet,
Abby Goldsmith: right? Yeah, they’re, they’re, they still got at least 100 chapters to go. Yeah, probably 120 maybe. Yep. And I’m posting 5 days a week. So that’s going to take a while.
Michael Evans: Yeah, they’ve got till probably it’s the beginning of the next year to finish. Yes. No, that makes. That makes total sense. You you’ve got the whole thing down. It’s really cool to see. Thank you.
Abby Goldsmith: Yeah. Well, there’s gonna be a gap because you know I just I honestly don’t write that fast. So I think a lot of people forget the mistaken impression that I’m like a mad genius.
That’s [00:33:00] just like writing 10, 000 words per day. But no, no, I don’t write that fast at all. This was over years. So, yeah, I’m currently working on my new series. I’m 15 chapters into it and will I have 100 chapters by next year? I don’t know. Maybe.
Michael Evans: So what will you do? And you may not have, you might not know now, which is okay.
But for instance, with the people who are paying monthly, if there is a gap in what you’re offering them, what will you do about that? Yeah,
Abby Goldsmith: I’m trying to figure that out. I Do have some like shorter books, like trunk novels kind of thing. A book that I want to sell to the big five, that I’m considering pitching to the big five.
And I have like some non fiction stuff I’ve written and so forth. So I have plenty of material, but will it hit that audience? Probably.
Michael Evans: You could always have seen some authors choose to do one of two things. like you said, either offer some different kinds of material that will kind of, you know, what would be the word, I guess, like, lay the readers over, tell them, tell them the next story. Or sometimes authors pause their subscription when they pause the payments.[00:34:00]
So that readers aren’t continuing to be charged for maybe two or three months if they’re not offering anything. Some authors choose to do that. And some authors, and you could do this too, you might even want to start doing this depending on how your timeline goes. Although it’s tough of a world road, but I’ve seen that paid subscribers tend to be pretty, like, open to like a break.
Once every 90 days for like a week or so. If you tell them like, Hey, I’m going on break, you know, going on vacation, taking a week off, they’re usually pretty open to that. And that buys you a little bit more time. But no, that’s very, that it’s a good problem to have, but I’m excited for you to make that transition.
Abby Goldsmith: Thanks. Yeah, yeah, I’m a little nervous about it. It’s true. I don’t know if I’m going to be able to retain people after Taurus is done. But on the other hand, I do think that, like, having a magnum opus series where it’s all pre written and I’m really proud of the result. I mean, I think that that does help with, like, lifelong fans or people that That are really like, okay.
I want to see what else this author does. So, yeah,
Michael Evans: I mean, you gain the ultimate trust, when they see that you got completed, the end and that, like, you finish that arc. And of course, there’s still more in the [00:35:00] universe to be explored, but that you finish that story. I do think that, yeah, that gets you a lot of trust the people who, who made it through it.
And I think that. You know, they are willing to wait for the next one. They are willing to, once you do one thing great like that, I think you, you get a little bit of leeway for sure.
Abby Goldsmith: Yeah. I hope so. Otherwise, I will. Yeah. You’re doing
Michael Evans: your best, right? And you’re having fun. That’s what matters.
Abby Goldsmith: Yeah. Yeah, definitely.
Michael Evans: Well, I’m curious. With everything you shared today, incredible advice. If there’s anything else that you would want an author to know, specifically an author who might be thinking about getting into a real road, you know, pursuing a similar path that you had, what would be maybe your advice looking back at it?
Maybe looking back even to December that you wish you knew
Abby Goldsmith: that. I mean, I think, I think it’s a lot of what I already said, like build the backlog, set your pace in a sane way and not an insane way. Thank you. Don’t set a pace of four chapters per day or you will hate yourself. be sane about it.
I’d say respond to comments and be classy about it. Don’t start ranting and abusing people.
Michael Evans: Yeah, being, [00:36:00] being kind, but making people feel notices is usually a good role. I, I love it. Abby. This was, this is an amazing conversation. And where can, where can we find you and learn more
Abby Goldsmith: about you?
Oh, thank you. Yeah. Well, my website is abbygoldsmith. com and. That’s A B B Y, and my book is Majority. That’s the series starter for the big Magnum Opus Twerth series. So easy to find with Google or whatever.
Michael Evans: Or the links down in the down there. Whatever you’re listening on, whether it’s YouTube or Spotify, Apple Podcasts, wherever you choose to listen to.
Abby, this was a fantastic interview and just huge congrats on an incredible year. And I know it’s just the start of many amazing things to come for you and your readers. Thank
Abby Goldsmith: you. Well, thanks for having me on.
Michael Evans: No problem. My pleasure.
I hope you enjoyed this one. Abby’s truly an inspiration and, ah, like, what a cool moment. I hope to see you all on the next episode. We have tons of episodes releasing this month, so just get ready. Lots and lots of content. And if you haven’t yet joined the Six Figure Description Author Accelerator, Cohort 2.
0 is open now through the end of the month. So check it out and we’ll see you all on the next one.[00:37:00] But don’t forget, storytellers rule the world.