by Ream
Posted on March 23, 2024
Join us for an insightful episode as Verika Sloane, the talented author renowned for her spicy paranormal and contemporary romance novels, sits down with host Michael Evans to discuss her journey through the ever-evolving landscape of writing and publishing. From grappling with imposter syndrome to finding inspiration in reader engagement, she delves deep into the realities of the craft.
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#75 Episode Transcript:
[00:00:00]
Verika Sloane: Being a writer is so solitary.
and,
You have good days and bad days and some days you’re on fire and some days you’re like, why bother imposter syndrome? Who am I? Why am I writing? And so it’s when you have other people are like, are you out of your mind or you’re not going to drop an episode?
I
pulled over the side of the road to read it. I’m like whoa, okay. Then I’ll get write back on that. So
it is.
they’re like so when something happens at the nightclub, Then
I make a little promo. It says nightclub is closed and then they’re like, oh my gosh. And what happened in the episode is the reason why it’s closed and they’re putting it on their Instagram.
I’m trying to hit all the feels and make it feel as real to them as I can. And
It’s
not,
it’s
the escape, but it’s also the fantasy, and it’s also your passion will show if you are also excited about your story as well.
Welcome to Subscriptions for Authors. Meet your co hosts, Michael Evans, sci fi thriller author of a dozen novels, and Amelia Rose, a semi [00:01:00] romance author that makes six figures per year in subscriptions. Together, we will help you make more money with subscriptions and succeed in the future of publishing.
Michael Evans: I’m so excited for this one. Welcome to this podcast, everyone. Welcome to Subscriptions for Authors. We have Verika with us here today. Verika Sloan, who is such an incredible person. We met Verika, me and Amelia, at 20 Books 2022. So actually quite a while ago. And when attending one of Amelia’s keynotes, she just got inspired to start a subscription and to go down this path of serialization and it’s gone really well.
She started on Radish. Let’s be on the get. Thousands and thousands of readers there and now is doing really well in her subscription and she’s going to talk about her entire journey. But what I also want to share with you all today is that there’s a really unique and cool opportunity for you all to actually grow as serial authors.
Amelia created [00:02:00] the One Million Reads Serial Lab which is designed to help you Start writing serials and get to your first 1 million reads all learning from Amelia, who has 70 million plus story reads online. You can find the link to join Season of the Lab down below. And I hope you enjoy this podcast because Verika is truly like an incredible human being.
She’s so far, so bwrite, and just has so many great insights. So, hope you guys enjoy this interview and enjoy this podcast. I’ll see y’all on the other side.
Michael Evans: I’m so excited to have you on today. It’s been like, we go back a long time now, actually over a year ago for sure.
The
first time, I think it was like one of Amelia’s first times speaking
at a conference there at 20 Blips and. I know you listen
to it.
story.
from there, [00:03:00] we’ve kept in touch.
and you’ve been amazing member of the community, an
an amazing person. In
the orbit of the world. But recently,
you launched your own description. And we’re going to talk all about that. Because it’s gone.
really well.
But
before we do, Tell us a little bit about what that means to the author world.
What even brought you to, it’s starting up to a conference, showing up to Amelia’s topic of all topics. What kind of brought you in here to even be interested in subscriptions, because I know you’ve been thinking about doing it before you launched.
about a year.
Verika Sloane: Yeah, almost, yeah. I
started in publishing like 2007, 2008.
So self publishing is like a zygote at that point. And I Was not interested
in it at all. I wanted to be traditionally published. I wanted to avon Harlequin. I wanted to be on a shelf in Target.
and I
Then I realized that I wasn’t really ready. So I started like small press publishing, [00:04:00] they gave me contracts for six books, like in a shared world, anthology, novellas, just get my feet wet.
And
then I, when I was ready for a full on novel and I was going to submit it to Harlequin and Avon, I realized that they said at the time they could take up to a year to get back to you. And that’s just more than likely say no,
because it’s like the
NFL. They take like the top 1%. And so I was like, okay, so
I
have to wait a year to hear from you about this book.
And then also you can’t submit to more than one at the same time. So you can’t have Harlequin and Avon
fighting over
you. They said, no, it’s me or them. And I’m like, so wait, I wait two years let’s say to get a yes. And then even after that, it takes another year for them to publish it. So you, I’m like, that is a lot of life minutes that
am waiting on a book
that I wrote four years ago.
So I was like, okay, it’s time to look into the self publishing. So I went into that I put out like a
contemporary
series, [00:05:00] like
seven
books. There’s three novels, four novellas. I’m trying to get fans.
And it’s a series I’ve been wanting to write and I didn’t have any money for ads. I also work full time and so I wasn’t pounding these out.
took
a few years. And so I was doing
promos and
getting a few reviews, but it wasn’t ever skyrocketing like others did. And especially in 2012 when self publishing was just blowing up on Kindle. So
I
Didn’t write for a little while, and then I thought
now I’m really into paranormal romance, I want to write about vampires.
Way easier, because you can make up your own rules,
and you can get as
hot as you like. And so I went into that, started a six book novella series thought, thinking, because this is
happens when
you make plans.
I’m
going to
set this up, this world up, and then when everybody likes it, I’m going to write a whole novel series.
This is like the prequel series, and then I’m going to write a [00:06:00] novel series after that. Sure.
Published that,
and
promoted it, but again, no money for ads, and I don’t know, people like it, I guess I
get a few reviews. But I’m only having newsletter subscribers because
I’m
signing up for newsletter builders, but I don’t really have fans.
You know what I mean? Like I don’t have people
on my fan
or Facebook page. I love your stuff. I like okay. I decided to not. Go on to the novels for that series. And
I’m just,
I’m
with writing, I’ve been writing
since I was five, I would write
notebooks
about me and my crushes ending up together by hand. And
so romance was always going to be it for me. And I’m like, but I don’t know what people really like about it. Look
at the reviews on Amazon and they’ll say, it was great. I was entertained. Okay. But I don’t know what about me that they liked or the story. I’m adrift. I write a
nutcracker retelling romance [00:07:00] in six weeks because that was on my mind.
And then I wrote a full length
forbidden
romance vampire and 2020, and I intended to make that vampire romance a trilogy and just it my muse left. She went to Tahiti. She went
Hong Kong. I don’t know where she
went, but she was gone. It was 2020. And so
Michael Evans: Yeah.
Verika Sloane: I just
don’t know where to go at that
or what I’m doing. And I’m like, I don’t have a whole lot
of fans, so I’m not letting anybody down anyways.
Michael Evans: Your story.
Verika Sloane: 2021, I get the advice to put my backlist on Radish set it and forget it, because you can’t really advertise for Radish, because when people
look at the ad and I have to
download the app, I have
sign
up, and then I have to pay coins in order to read this story that she was advertising to me no.
It needs to be polar,
I call it polar, past least resistance, write? So
I’m
like, so you
put them on [00:08:00] there, and Radish
finds the
readers for you, they have the readers,
and they will promote your story and then
it, and then you can
make a little
money on
the side. So I’m like, cool. I’ll do that.
I put my Vampire series on there, I put the Contemporary series on there, and
write away I
could tell that Vampire series is not what they wanted, but they liked my
and It
was doing okay, it was nothing to like, write home about, but
I was like, okay they like my contemporary voice, that’s fine, because I don’t know what voice I want to write in anyway.
So
About six months later, I take off the Vampire Series and started seeing these patterns because once a month at the time, Radish used to send monthly newsletters telling you. Exactly what readers are looking for the top 10
of their searches.
and I noticed they were the same
10, but like in different order. They would change order, but
they were the same.
And it was
smut, virgin, daddy, age gap, [00:09:00] alpha, billionaire, polyamory spanking, bondage. I was like, okay, the same. And the same, at least for three
months in a row. I was like, okay, so they obviously want it really hot. And and I like those themes the most.
And then I
was like, okay, I think I have a concept like that.
And what I liked about the idea of serialization was I don’t have to devote a whole six months or a year. Cause that’s sometimes how long it takes me to write in order to find out that people like it. I can start now on Radish because they let you write as you
go, basically you can do three times a week, five days a week, once a week,
and just get that
instant feedback and find out is this something you’re
you’re into? Also Reverse Harem was on fire and I thought, okay, I can do Reverse Harem.
And I’m like, no, I can’t. I’m going to start with
two guys instead of three. And then I’m like, and they really like
person. And I usually write
in third. And I’m like, so I’m going to, I’m going to do first person instead of third.[00:10:00]
I’m only going to write from a single point of
of view, just the heroine, because I don’t think I can write from
two
men and her. I was like, I don’t know if I can pace it. So this is an experiment. I’m going to find out and if a couple of months in it bombs, I really haven’t lost a whole lot of time or effort.
So it was let’s just start it in radish and see.
And when you think about
cereals, because I know a lot of people. Poo about it, but Game of Thrones
what are they?
Outlander, all these shows are basically
ending on a cliffhanger
every single episode, and the reason why we’re manic for them is because
We want to know what
happens next, and we want to know now.
But they’re piecemealing it to us,
week by week, at least Game of Thrones did. And even Netflix does that, they drop half of the season now, and
half
the season later, like they get it.
And so we were getting
such used to
instant
gratification
but reading watching a [00:11:00] whole series in 1 weekend, you’re, then you’re over it and you can
be a manic
kind of fan for it.
But.
now you’re onto the next and I like the idea of, Oh my gosh, what happened? What’s good, what’s next? That feeds this emotion and attachment like nothing else.
So if you’re
on the fence about serial novels,
least
in romance, oh, this is how I got some pretty
good ones.
Manic Superfans
is by ending every
single episode on a soft or a cliff soft or hard cliffhanger
and Giving them those
themes that they wanted.
So I wrote a smutty, burgeoning, age gappy alpha, contemporary
Story and, but I’m getting ahead of myself.
I
that in
June of 2021 and. It’s got a few views and but it wasn’t taking off. It wasn’t skyrocketing by any means. Then I went to the [00:12:00] conference
And
I was really interested because I’d never really heard of with subscriptions or like Patreon or anything like that before.
And so I was drawn to something new. Because everything else that I had tried to get fans, like the newsletter builders, the Facebook parties, were not working for me.
I’m
not a fast writer, I can’t pump them out every month, so I was just like,
this
is something new and it’s super intriguing. I thought
after her presentation, and I know, I remember
I fangirled all over you guys in the hallway.
I remember very distinctly oh my god, you just blew my mind! Thinking, wow, you can have fans that want to support you monthly for things that are not even edited because
For early access or bonus, just.
on you. You and you alone. Because we’re so used to paying one monthly price for access to thousands of hours of content.
And so I was like, there’s [00:13:00] just no way someone’s just going to want to pay
me, just me for my content. So I thought her story was incredibly inspiring, but I’m like, what?
but I don’t have any super fans
superfans to really sell this to and
I, I
didn’t know if I could just put it out there to my newsletter. I’m pretty sure it was a pretty cold audience that they’re like, okay, like that’s nice, but we just
to
to read your
book. That’s what I think my
newsletter subscribers are going to say they weren’t going to be really responsive.
I’m
like, I’m going to wait until I know I have a few fans before I do my super fans. My subscription
I also want to point out that when you think about it, all the steps that you go through to publish the, okay, idea, outline, write, edit, cry, scream, bleed, cover it, market it, publish it.
By the time you’ve published it on retailers, you’re over it. You’re like, onto the next
shiny, write? Your fans leave
reviews and that’s great. But the story has been written. It’s done. Like
over it. I’m already on
to [00:14:00] either a new series or the second book or whatever. And having someone read it
as you go, and give feedback as you
go can really motivate you more and then keep you into the same sphere as your readers, and so
they’re reviewing your book that’s already
been published, like that’s nice, but that one’s done
And I’m not going to go back and edit it, I’m not going to. I’m not gonna change anything, but thank you for your feedback, I was doing okay with that story. It was mainly my I had six girlfriends that were addicted to it.
They loved it. They kept me motivated and I should have realized at the time that I was one of those authors that thrives on instant feedback and motivation, encouragement. But I still was not
on, because I’m like, they’re my friends, they’re just.
They’re being nice. And they were genuine about it, but still, they’re not my audience.
Around March, so this story’s been going on for 10 months, I I
got sick. I went on vacation, I got sick.
and I was
[00:15:00] writing like two, three times a week. So I was dropping episodes several times a week and then now I just stopped because I was sick. Things happen. And and I was like, ah,
there’s so there’s
hundreds of books on Radish that they can
read in the meantime I’ll be back and I didn’t even live
it on a cliffhanger.
I
had resolved a conflict and the three of them had made up
and it ended
on a nice little like sexy time. out. Bye.
So it wasn’t as if I left them hanging
but I started to get DMs on Facebook and Instagram where they were worried about you, very concerned, what’s going
this
isn’t like you,
And then I felt very guilty that I just
Ghosted and I wasn’t ready to go back and then once they started messaging me I’m like, okay, so I’ve got six Super fans that are like,
I’m waiting, and I
can’t wait and I love this story.
great!
So I went back in and[00:16:00]
season two, because
Radish calls them seasons, but it’s basically book two
I I
finish it up
and
I get a couple comments like, love the story. This is my favorite. That’s nice. But it isn’t until season three, book three,
and I put on the
very first, after the very first episode, I did my first writer’s note, like big writer’s note, like Amelia had suggested.
And I said, let’s get interactive this season. That’s exactly what I said.
How
about I put on these. Random polls once in a while on episodes and you guys get to vote what happens next. Now,
it’s not going to be like anything that
changes the trajectory of the plot or any, or anything that’s going to, move the plot in a different direction.
just
going to be
who walks in the door,
where they have sexy
time,
with it, where they go on a
date, things like that.
And I got, I think I got 40.
40
Responses. Yes. In in. So that told me [00:17:00] that me data write away that
I 40
people who are willing to interact on this app.
And before I would get.
3 comments on a episode 1
one or zero, write? They were
really quiet.
and then I realized
oh, they’re quiet because I’m quiet.
I’m not writing writer’s notes. I’m not saying anything to their comments, but now I am. So they’re in for their random polls. I post a poll the next episode asking, oh who do you want to be behind the door? Hero A or Hero B? And it was like,
90 percent hero A And
I was not surprised. But, I’m like, wait a minute, I love both.
So I was hoping it would be kind of 50 50 so that data told me that I’m writing Hero A like he’s on point, and I know why they love him, and it’s
he’s the
broody, emotionally unavailable,
harsh
hero, and the other one is Alpha, but he’s more, secure with his feelings and open and [00:18:00] expressive, so they want the brooding
guy to show up, so that’s what I write, and they loved that.
So they
felt like they got to
decide instead of, me being the master,
mistress of it all. And I was like, okay, I’m hooked.
Because,
then now their comments
were just like a line or two are now full on maximum word count. La, can’t believe this
happened. Oh my gosh, it was exactly what I wanted.
Or they give feedback
like, oh, I,
he didn’t react the way I thought. And I was like,
I like this.
So then after
that every poll, I would get many comments
then that activated, I think
Radish should take notice of, oh, this story is getting a lot of comments. So they started putting me like, in top 10 in the community category.
They have several
and
then we’re talking and we’re getting more comfortable
And
I think it’s because. I started that, of course, with the polls, but I’m not trying to think of it as a reader standpoint. [00:19:00] When you think of a reading a book or on even on an app. You’re probably thinking, Radish put this on here.
They hired the author. They contracted them. They’re putting the story out there. You don’t think that it’s all the writer.
At least as a reader
who would have no knowledge of publishing, might think, and so you’re not going to say, hey, this is awesome or anything like that, because. You just assume it’s just the app being thrown, the story being thrown on an app.
And, but once I started
making it clear that I’m a
real person with feelings and a full time job and that, I,
they laugh at me because I’ll say
things like, I can’t believe he
did that. And they’ll be like, you’re the writer. Yeah,
yeah, but the characters are in charge
and they just think that’s hilarious.
And so
we’ve started a rapport and it’s just
gotten really comfortable.
Now we feel like a little community in there. And then
I
I thought it was very interesting that someone told me, actually, I [00:20:00] think
maybe
10 people told me you’re one of the only authors that.
interacts on
this app and I found that shocking and I don’t know if that’s true, but maybe it’s just the stories are reading, but
I’m like, no, they probably got
got the same advice.
I got said it and forget it. You put the story on there and then you don’t have to, you can’t market it. So just leave it alone.
And I’m, I want to emphasize, at least on
I want to emphasize at least on Radish
don’t do that.
There are
Many readers on there that would love to talk to you. You are a celebrity to them. And even though that makes me cringe.
But it’s
True. I think that you’re just, amazing creating this world for them. And I don’t know how to express how enthusiastic and positive they are, at least on Radish. It’s overwhelming. The comments that I get now, you should see them they say the craziest things. They talk about my characters like they’re real to relatives [00:21:00] and relatives are like, wait, these are characters in a story you’re reading on an app, but
husbands curse my name, because they’ll just start
crying,
reading an episode that I’ve Put
them through a lot because it’s only written in the heroine’s point of view.
They go through everything she goes through. Because they never get the hero side.
So just like in real life, you have
no idea what the guy is thinking or what he’s up to when he’s not around you. And so I think that also feeds into their emotions with this story too. Is that, they’re always left
hanging something is always
Questionable in the air. And I was like, okay. I’ve got some super fans for sure. And now I
think I can
start a subscription.
So
I started eyedropping the idea to them.
I didn’t want to just blast and say, I have one now. So I would say, I’m thinking about making a subscription where you guys can talk to me off the app and we can [00:22:00] brainstorm and I can give you guys bonus content and stuff
that. I was
putting out merch. What do you guys want? And you’re like bonus content, like what? And I’m like, wow.
Oh, none of the
story is written in the hero’s point of view, and zilch. I’m like, what if I wrote
that one scene from book one from Gage or Alex’s point of view?
Oh, wow. They were like, yes, because we’re talking
300, 000 words at this point have been written just from the female main character.
And
so I was like, okay they want that. And I thought it was a little too late to do early access. Cause I’m in the middle of a season and I didn’t want to tell them now you’ve got to read it on here, but eventually be on there. So
I was like, I’m not going to touch early access.
until I
have a new season.
this
is strictly bonus content.
I feel like I’m
just all over this write now. Do you want me to?
Michael Evans: me to share your story? I’m not going to get into your story.
Verika Sloane: Okay.
You’re like going really
fast, but but it’s happening really fast.
I started telling them about the [00:23:00] subscription and then we’re just going
to do bonus content and that bonus content is
only going to
be on that subscription
And they are going to be able to vote on which scenes they want.
They wanted me to write the entire
books
from
their point of view. And I’m like, that’s not possible.
But I will write your most
wanted scenes
And you guys can tell me what you want.
I’m pretty sure I know a couple of them, but other than that, so I’m giving them more power, more feedback. And so I set up my subscription.
I really agonized over the
aesthetics. I really agonized, of course, over the starting price. And I started high. I just thought I was worth it. I was also offering just three works in progress, but I’ll tell you what, they weren’t really interested in the other two books. They’re there for this book and that’s fine.
And so I said, Were they there for the bonus
Michael Evans: scene specifically? What’s that?
Were they there for the bonus
scene specifically?
[00:24:00] for that book, or?
Verika Sloane: Yeah, so the, it was going to be early access
for the new season and for the bonus content.
And yeah, and I was offering only what
I could handle, which was. Like, bonus scene and I only, committed to doing one a month.
I, I didn’t want to over commit.
And then
they could get a free ebook. If they did the 15, so I started at 10, 10 a month
And that is
just works in progress. That’s it. I had three books,
works in progress, but they’re not interested in the other two. They just want this one. I can tell 15 a month was, is
On my back list which is like 20 titles
Including
my paranormal stuff and
free ebook and they get their name in the acknowledgments page.
They loved that by the way. The book just came out for this story, the 1st, 1 and I wouldn’t ask everyone. What
name do you want in there? Your
username your 1st
name, first and last name,
As I wanted everyone to feel [00:25:00] comfortable, some people were like, just use this name. But once it came out there, they were so
the moon. I was so touched
because it was something very easy for me to include. And then I jumped from 15 a month to 30 a month because I thought,
no way,
no one’s going to join that one. That’s a lot. It includes assigned paperback and I can name a side character
you because please help me come
up with names.
I always have a cast of a thousands. A thousand in my stories. And so I’m like,
if you can give me a name that I can use, I get to do whatever I want
with your character. It’s not going to be you,
but that was a benefit.
So backlist side character named after you, the name and the acknowledgements and then assigned paperback.
That’s 30 a month. And I
I was
like, nah, no one’s going to sign up for that. Someone signed up that immediately as soon as I launched and I was so flattered. Okay. And I’ve clearly got super fans. I’ve got, I think last time I looked 205 followers on there and it’s [00:26:00] only been a couple of months live, a couple of months and 40 subscribers to it.
So
yeah, it’s,
I have, my goal was 10 by the end of the year, but I got 10 within the first week.
that were not, friends and
family. I’m
like, those don’t count, don’t
join it. I just wanted super fans on there. And wow. I’m
I feel,
anyway, yeah. Since we met, I’ve definitely
changed
everything. The subscription did and the idea and Amelia’s ideas
and suggestions.
So I like to think I’m a good case study of following her advice.
exactly, and
a story that started out as an experiment has now taken over my life.
and
It’s just set my whole 2024 because I thought when it’s over, though, what am I going to do there? Are they going to be interested in more of my work?
So is this it?
it is This is
my star and it’s going to burn out.
and then I
so I introduced a hero, he was a [00:27:00] villain. He started out as a villain and of course I made him too charming, too sexy. And now they want him to have
own book so now I’m gonna be able to spin off of this into his
book and then hopefully keep the momentum going.
But I’m going to do
that all on my subscription though, or at least start it there because now
Retailers
should meet. Are last. They used to be first, now they’re last. Just like Christopher Hopper said
they don’t
care. They are just a platform and in the beginning
that was the only
platform that you could use to sell your
Books
and get
And now,
you can’t get discovered unless you’re paying for them to advertise for you something so start
Work
Start on your own work on yourself. I’m trying to think of a way to say it, but Rechler’s your last,
to me. Yeah, the book will be on Amazon someday. But that’s not my
my
only focus anymore. And it’s so freeing and it’s so [00:28:00] amazing. And now my fans are just these
reviews on Amazon who I can never talk to, who I can never thank.
thank.
I’ll get the most amazing 5 star review on Amazon, but that’s nice, but I’ll never know who that is or how they found me. Amazon will never give me that data. And so having a subscription gives me access to all of that. I can
thank them and laugh with them
and
Reward them
Anytime I want
whether they’re subscribing or following, or they’re just a fan, I have access to them.
And that’s for someone like me that’s awesome. The best part is having
own
sphere with my fans who love
my writing,
they let me know and they give me feedback.
And now my world’s completely changed as a writer.
I had no idea that the story
would
evolve to what it is, but it has and I’ve got
some
serious addicts.
They they let me know
every [00:29:00] episode I drop it and they’re like, when’s the next one?
I’m like, you guys know when
the next
is? I work. And until this is my full time job I’m doing the best I can, but every episode they always say something crazy and I love it and I’m like, now I’m addicted to it.
It’s my dopamine. So I’m thriving on their feedback.
Sometimes they come up with
better ideas.
They’ll be
like, Oh, I totally thought this was going to happen. And I’ll be like,
That was better. It happens. That’s the journey. Yeah.
Michael Evans: The journey is incredible.
have. I dive into some areas a little bit more because just now
Circle
back
the context, so I will tell
a timeline,
We started in 2007, it’s 2000. That’s when you started your career. Yeah. You were still writing
romance back then, writing romance now.
Some genres have
change, just at this level, very short story.
But you’ve always
been a romancer. Then you all along kind of [00:30:00] publishing,
Michael Evans: the end of the day. Nothing really hit.
Michael Evans: Then 2020 comes around, you’re at a low point
Michael Evans: in terms of just motivation, creativity.
Michael Evans: And someone
Michael Evans: tells you soon after
Michael Evans: moving into
Michael Evans: 2021,
Michael Evans: hey, there’s this new platform.
Look, there’s Ravnish. You just put
your stories there. You that, and
say
nothing happens. the
not really
a doubt. Then, we’re now in 2022. Then in 2022, which is down at the same time. It’s
I’m saying people understand
long arc of it. You’re now 14 years in.
You listen to
Amelia Westcombe,
And she starts
getting you thinking differently about subscriptions, community, serialization.
You’re like,
like, alwrite,
alwrite,
I’m gonna give this a real shot now.
Yeah.
This
year,
first
season goes up on Radish, second season goes up on Radish, third season goes up, and you really then start trying to build, [00:31:00] release it to your fans more intentionally, involving them in your story. Then it sinks off, then you have your subscription.
Thanks for tuning in. That’s it. Yeah.
of that’s happened mostly the last to months terms of the actual growth.
Verika Sloane: the
no, actually
June 2022 is when I started that 1.
Michael Evans: Okay. So Radish, started on
Verika Sloane: in June 2022
Michael Evans: and
Verika Sloane: And then I was just,
Was getting a few views, but I was going on the motivation of my friends. They were the ones who encouraged me.
Six months into it is when I went to the conference and saw the subscription for authors. And then I got sick. And so I’m already into like season two by the time I realized, Oh, I have a couple of super fans. I’m going to finish it up.
And then I’m like, Now that I know I have
six. I keep saying the word six, but I’m pretty sure it’s six
fans for season three.
I’m going to ask them to participate
with me.
then I
realized I had more than just [00:32:00] six. I just hadn’t been interaction
Michael Evans: with him,
season three?
Verika Sloane: June of this year. 2022. So
Michael Evans: it all has happened in the last
Verika Sloane: Yeah.
So yeah, the whole explosion has happened. Like it started in
2022, but the whole
it leaped.
And then
Michael Evans: you
have had
how many views on streets?
on Radish?
Verika Sloane: June, 2022, when I started the book until
April of 2023,
I got 300,000 views. Which sounds like
lot,
but on Radish, there’s people with 500 million, so it’s a blip.
but once
I started, and this is exactly how this happened, once I started doing the polls, interacting, talking to them,
I mean, I comment on
negative or positive comments.
I try to always spin the negative into a positive. Someone says it’s usually a negative meaning. You’re not fast enough. I wish the whole book was done. I can’t believe this. I can’t read anymore, blah, blah, blah. I’m so sorry. I am full time.
I’m not a
full time [00:33:00] author. I have
full
time job and
I try to be like, but please
hang in there.
but you can always wait until
the
comes
out, once I started talking to them and turning. So let’s say there’s 30 comments and if I had a comment, then it’s 60 comments. And then our reddish to them, they’re like people are talking about this book and so they’re
me on the main page. And that’s
because reddish has changed a lot.
They don’t do promos anymore. And so I went from 300, 000 in April.
and
as of today, I’m at 2. 1Million. So it took me 10 months to make 300, 000 views and then look, I got a quadruple. The views once I started interacting with them,
And so I don’t know how other platforms are like, but with Radish,
that was the
Michael Evans: it’s important because.
You’re you’re
sharing,
I agree
completely with what you thought, and it makes sense why it works, but just where my insights coming in, in terms of, [00:34:00] I think. Why it’s working,
It’s not
necessarily because there are more costs, because if there were more comments if you want to like, think about,
how that would be very easy
to gain
think about if I wanted to gain engagement
from a comment perspective,
the idea would be Just spam comments, spam comment, write?
You could have
bot farms take over that
these apps very easily. So what’s really happening
and it’s really cool, is that you commentate. Is actually leading to your readers reading and
readers sharing your story more, and then that’s obviously leading the algorithm pushing you, but
the real behavior that’s happening is You’re building
a parasocial relationship
With your readers and that’s keeping them more invested in your work.
So they’re going
to read chapter one. Chapter 2, chapter 3. What is Radish
really saying? What do they really want? They want to come as they want money and this is every platform. Every platform you make They want to make money, write? That’s how you have to think about it. [00:35:00] How am I gaining the system?
You’re not. You’re trying to make more money. How do you make more money? Find a better
experienced readers.
And you’ve already been thinking this. I
loved your polar acronym in terms of, reducing friction with readers. But
I
think what was happening,
and I wouldn’t
know because I’m not all of your readers heads, but I’m thinking.
They’re more invested in
your work.
They literally imagine you would to pay to unlock that next chapter. You would want to stick around when you voted
on what you’re hoping happens next, in a
sense, write? The the specific, Then they’re seeing readers stick around
for a long time, continuing to read chapter after chapter. When income goes up per reader, they go, wow, how can we generate more revenue?
Let’s just show it to more readers and readers themselves go. Hey, I’ve already spent money on this
book, but I love it. Yeah, you got to come in. Yeah,
It’s that fortuitous cycle, which incredible
And now they’re on your description, which I wanted to ask in terms of like Your subscription and readiness in terms of just if there’s a pie of of 100
Month over month write now, [00:36:00] where is your subscription at in terms of your like net You Revenue, like what percent is that?
Is it
5%? Is it
10%? Is it 25%? Roughly because your description’s done really well. It’s launched great,
But what do other authors expect? If already gaining discovery, they
have this audience, now they want to provide more.
Are they going to double their income Is it going to be
25%? Are
to 10x their income? Probably not 10x. I don’t
know that But, I don’t want to
like ever promote anything falsely to people, write? If
you could 10X your overnight, that’d be crazy. But what has it actually done for you? you’ve watched Riddle Expo.
couple months,
Verika Sloane: Okay like on Amazon or retailers, I’m making, enough for a nice lunch, maybe but
the subscription, I’m making four figures now on, on radish, which is the most I’ve ever made anywhere.
But for the
this
subscription like in terms of, I don’t know. Monthly, it’s
40
percent of my I’m sorry, I’m not very good at numbers, so I’m trying to think of how to [00:37:00] say. so I think I know what you’re saying. Is it 40? It’s 40 percent of net income So
Michael Evans: if you were to theoretically
you’re not making this
I’m using this number.
number made 10 in a month, I making lot more than that But i’m
using this because it’s the example. Four pennies would be coming from your subscription. Is it? Yeah.
Verika Sloane: Yeah.
Michael Evans: else?
Verika Sloane: yeah, it is, and it is
for 20%.
Michael Evans: That’s pretty interesting because that means then like the subscription has increased your total Revenue by quite
a bit.
when you add that I like it’s 40 percent now But that
means the
whole increased by a lot and that means
overall,
like really grown lot this But you put
whole, your growth of the serial
platforms where
where the scripts
could buy it, which amazing So I have a few questions you But what I want to do is I had five takeaways
that I had from what you shared.
Five lessons that I had.
But I don’t actually want to
share my takeaways, at least at first. I want to ask you to do.
From this whole journey you share
with us,
[00:38:00] if you had to give three lessons that you’d want you want to share with other authors,
What would those three lessons be?
Verika Sloane: Concerning the whole
Michael Evans: The whole journey you share, because this whole arc is
It’s really inspiring.
to have someone, Keep at it
for so long,
You said yourself Amazon’s lunch which been lunch money
for me, too It’s not anything that I about
it’s something write.
Verika Sloane: right,
Michael Evans: Now you’re finding,
A degree of success that.
this isn’t just something anymore Like you’re actually able to turn this into a serious side hustle.
We’re definitely the
bona fide sign household planner,
which is huge That’s huge. A lot of people,
like myself included if that was all
writing ever was for me, but
I actually make it a hustle that I could cover all the expenses of it,
I could maybe work a little bit less of
job, I’m perfectly happy reading, by the way, guys.
but just thinking very long term, that’s Position
reading that I was in, I’d be super happy with that. I think, like, when
people listen
to this, like, you’re already in a position write now that [00:39:00] people would love get to. So the three lessons just on your overall journey.
Is that really dive into descriptions soon.
what would be your three lessons that you would want? Three life lessons from America, three life lessons that you would
wanna to share with others to
Hopefully help them get to you are
write now, and
you’re gonna keep growing. I believe in you on that, but just recognizing the success you’re.
had.
I don’t know if I can have,
Verika Sloane: I’m just, there’s, I have
Michael Evans: I know three is hard,
Verika Sloane: I hard, but not, like I said
there’s a lot to be learned along the way. I’m trying to
think of, I wish I would have just started interacting from the very beginning,
And I know
that for, at least for creators, That’s not something you really want to do because a lot of us are introverts.
I’m extroverted, but I, but as
writer, I’m pretty
introverted. Like I, I put my things out there and I’m like, do you like it? Is that okay? I don’t want to hear it if you don’t, I so I guess a lesson to be [00:40:00] learned is that if
have an idea and
you don’t want to devote your entire
year to
it or month to it.
To just start putting it out there now. It’s a good case for starting a subscription, which I know you said you were going to talk about subscriptions, but it is really great to get instant feedback. So we live in an instant gratification world. And no matter what platform you’re going to put it on, Wattpad, Radish.
Royal road or what genre out write away if that’s worth investing your time into it, because obviously there are books that you put out and even the most successful authors are like that, that didn’t do well. And I’m surprised because I loved it. Is it you loved it?
However, like the audience out there, they’re clamoring for something else.
And there’s something to be said about giving the fans what they want. And I know a lot of authors are going to groan about that. And I did too, the whole writing to [00:41:00] market cliche, but you can also write to market, but still give them what they want.
To market, but still write what you want to write.
So that story, I was like, two hot professors are intelligent and successful. And a student accidentally sends them her fan fiction. And I’m like, so immediately, there’s a humiliation and I’m like, Oh my gosh, that would be so embarrassing.
And then but
there, There are two hot professors.
I’m like, that’s a fantasy that maybe for some people and,
but I’m still putting
in the story that I wanted to write inside of it. So you can still write to market, but what you want to happen in the story, and then you’ll be so surprised as you write. For instance, I learned a lesson I love angst. I like drama.
I love it.
And
I would write
all this drama and put my readers through it. And then I would give them a couple episodes of break where it’s just straight romance and good times. And then I’ll write in the comments okay, so it’s
it’s
time to go back to the, they got [00:42:00] to go home. They got to figure this out.
And they’ll be
like, no more romance. More of that. And oh,
I
did that. I took, I gave them like another three episodes of what they wanted. And that is just something that you don’t get in a lot of entertainment, write? You go to a movie and you’re like, that’s, there’s a whole series on YouTube about how it should have ended.
and it’s like, what if fans could actually give their feedback as they’re making the movie, and make it better, or I should
say better, just make it more
what
you realize. That the story should go and as a majority and wouldn’t that be cool? So don’t be afraid to tap into that, start experiment with the story to see if it’s something that readers are going to like, just like I said, this is an experiment.
I had no idea this story was going to take off the way it did at all. And even though it did take some time, but that’s because I waited a while to rope them in. It wasn’t until season [00:43:00] three of book three. That I did that, maybe if I’d have done it from the beginning it would have taken off sooner,
but it
wasn’t until I started, interacting with them and including them in the process that, like I said, it quadrupled in the views because people were getting very invested into it and because they felt like they were helping decide things.
And another
thing is that I, when it comes to the polls, I did not offer an option that I wasn’t prepared to write I wasn’t
saying A, B,
or C,
And then really hoping they don’t
choose C. No, I
like, I
am willing to write these 3 things. You pick your favorite, your majority. But the lesson is don’t be afraid to experiment with the serial.
and
To see the instant feedback might help you motivate you to keep going.
This
story now is 500, 000 words. It’s enough for five books. I thought I was going to end it [00:44:00] hundreds of thousands of words ago,
but they won’t let me. And when I
say, Oh, it’s ending, you guys ready? They’re not ready. They cry and they scream and they beg.
And so I’m like, okay.
And I want them happy. I want happy fans.
And subscribers, and I don’t know how many lessons, have I given two?
I think I’ve given one.
one.
Michael Evans: give it actually I think I the
three core lessons
you shared
Verika Sloane: Okay, good. Glad you’re listening.
Michael Evans: framework because I think that think
this could be helpful to you.
Because the three lessons
I got from you
within
Interact
the last three years, experiment, figure out what your readers
and write that.
And I feel like what you found,
and what you have working for you that three big are working in perfect And you’ve built
file of sorts, you
built a feedback loop that’s
going to keep working for you.
So the first thing you do is experiment. And [00:45:00] the key
is that we’re all when we put a story out into the world. But what you’ve done
And it
requires it’s
benefit
to see real picture.
And it’s a just a benefit
in general to a different mindset. Which
is
if
you’re investing in a year into a story, to write a full story, all
of a sudden you can only experiment year which
Which to be honest, a lot of people when they’re listening to your as an
an author like make it any Great, but a lot of
people are like, I’d love if I didn’t have to wait 15
years
And the truth is that, you’re still going to have to wait a while.
It’s not going to
happen overnight.
but
Maybe if you’re able to decrease the cycle time of your experiments, write? If it took a year to run an experiment and learn something, what if you could do it faster? What if
you’re able to get that learnings you have
had after a year,
It doesn’t mean the same readership or growth.
We’re not even worried about, we’re just worried about learning, which comes to that I think
have implicitly, but you
haven’t shared it like
this, but this one of my five takeaways
for you, which I’ll share at some website, find takeaways for your story. One of them is [00:46:00] Putting readers first, write?
But putting readers first
is different than,
for them or any sort of lovey dovey thing. It practically what putting readers first means is saying, as an author,
we don’t know what our readers want. We don’t actually know maybe even where are, but definitely
don’t know what they want. And we want to figure that out and give them that. And That is a really like.
we,
When people say write market, I know when you were write to market, I could
hear it see almost hesitation using
words because for some it’s gotten a weirdish rap in the community in
terms of what write to mark means.
And it’s a good thing. But the thing is and when people listen to this
podcast, they never the
normal write to market.
And I’m not the normal write to market guy, but I’m also will never say write
to market’s a bad thing. It’s actually,
if you’re not writing to a market, like what are doing?
The thing is write market has got
connotated with a number of tactics and ways of operating that make it really difficult because writing to market, [00:47:00] when you then go and write a full
book based on the market assumes that you understand the market. It
assumes that you know what the market wants. And here’s the thing, if anyone knew that,
or there was any way to actually figure
that out, they would be a billionaire because they would have dominated the whole
market. They would have it out,
write? The thing is, creative markets are very imperfect.
very
imperfect. They don’t even actually know what people
what are people
What
What is the thing that it’s going to hit? You don’t actually know. So you have to go in with
this sort of humbleness. And
as writers, a
a lot of times we say our sucks, write?
Like we, we don’t, we’ll always bragging ourselves, but
but that’s not really a productive.
Like I want you to feel like I’m going to write a great story
I can write a great story, but I also
do want you to think of that second part of
I
don’t know what the best story is. I don’t know what should be in it. I don’t know what really my
readers are looking. But I have an idea, and that’s
the experiment which you’ve been doing, but then what you’ve done, the [00:48:00] genius part, and the second step, this was your second lesson,
is the interacting
with readers.
readers.
Because that’s how you start learn, which third lesson. market figure out they’re interested but you’re doing all that and then you’re experimenting again in next
chapter,
learning more of interacting with them Figuring out now and you’re taking those learnings
into place,
and then experimenting more and I just think it’s like
this unbelievable feedback loop. And that you you’re working
now
taken that mindset in, and if
if
I can just walk away with something hopefully,
with however, you want to experiment
you might be experimenting in a different genre, you might be throwing out different stories, but hopefully you can do that.
And
last
part too, on what are your values, what do you want to
do? Like you don’t have compromise everything for the experiment. It’s also totally
true, because it’s like,
Why should you run an experiment you don’t even wanna do in
first place? should
Why should you?
you
rule the world as a storyteller. You
have that.
And you’re probably going to be able to find at some point the
the intersection what want
what you want and you’re going to [00:49:00] be learning more and
more. always. I think beautiful. But there’s one thing too, I just wanna share before we dive into descriptions, but I think people might feel it today about, because one of my things is
okay, Verika, I like, love that you interact with your readers, but you’re write a lot of people like, I do not want to hear this at all.
And the concept of feels
it feels, but
But the thing is interact your readers, when
you open up the world to them, when you open up your world to them, you
learn. And that
is the whole point of what I’m trying to share, that’s worked for
But you’re
uncomfortable being an animator, when we think of
interacting with
animators, we often think it’s Us sharing our personal life or like hey y’all It doesn’t have to be that way
If you’re trying to
figure out like what is the best way for you interact with readers I haven’t mentioned this in the
in the podcast, but we developed basically a personality
quiz It’s called author com. If you
take that quiz, this is literally what this was designed for. And the reason why this
is what is important because be able to create a
better story.
And gonna be able to
your readers [00:50:00] first and build a better
write? That’s what about How do you actually Your
Your persona.
So if you take the off AuthorPersonas quiz, it’s totally free. Y’all can go down the description
find it.
Oh, I took
that.
it.
What were you? I had to guess. Moonstone
Verika Sloane: so?
Michael Evans: Okay,
I was gonna say 100 percent you are a garnet or a moonstone.
You’re a moonstone. Perfect.
I just knew it. So you’re probably not ever sharing
your personal attributes.
Verika Sloane: I have not. I was
going to say that. I’m like, it’s always about this story. Unless I have to tell them I’m on vacation or I’m sick.
I don’t, they don’t know if I have
pets, they don’t
know, anything.
Yeah. No.
Michael Evans: Y’all gotta quiz. gonna help you out how you should
approach it.
and moonstone and garnets are very
interrelated. Especially in romance because so
much of romance is
character driven but anyways,
if you all don’t want to comment, just take the quiz, because I’m
that’ll help
Because it’s, when
hear people like Verika
who are
incredible
giving this amazing advice, sometimes it’s hard to feel like how do I apply this to them? And I think that’s
a useful [00:51:00] But yeah, you’re Verika. I really, I’m
so impressed
want to so much. But
This is our last thing here, because
I’ve learned
so much from you.
Verika Sloane: Really? Good. I felt like I was rambling
a lot, but,
Michael Evans: you’re honestly the first person we’ve had on this podcast really
is a case study.
study that like
what Amelia is talking about, even though, yeah, the Wattpad algorithms have changed,
Like the Radish algorithm change, like the different
world’s different than what Amelia got started four years ago, write?
the proof that it’s, it can work. It does work for people. Yes, a
Verika Sloane: job with similar mindset. Like I said, I was basically at zero and we’re talking about books that were
published in 2015
that I was making on Amazon and not advertising or really promoting. And, but I wasn’t excited about them anymore.
So I didn’t want to advertise about them. I wanted, my voice has changed. I don’t write in third person anymore. So I didn’t want to market books that people like love. [00:52:00] And then they realize. She doesn’t even write in third person and she doesn’t even write contemporary anymore. Now I do again, but so it’s like I started from scratch.
Like I said, I didn’t know my brand and now I know my brand is very emotional. My, my readers love the emotion. They say they go through all of the emotions in one episode. I write long episodes too. I try to get their coins worth on Radish three to six thousand words an episode now. That’s also because they motivate me to the point where I want to take them on an entire journey on one episode and not just the whole entire book and very, it’s more, I’m sorry
obvious to me
now what they like, instead of just going on Amazon and seeing a review of being like, this is what Such a great story that didn’t tell me anything that other than the fact that I wrote a great story, which is wonderful.
But now I get very specific feedback and now I know what I am [00:53:00] great at and what I’m not so great at. And that really helps me customize the story and what people outside our readers outside of Radish, whether they like it or not. And then this sounds weird, but doesn’t matter to me. My super bands really mattered to me.
It’d be wonderful if random strangers on Amazon love the story too. But it’s not vital to me as it used to be because I can’t, no matter what, it’s on Amazon now. I can’t talk to those people
And that, that
bums me out. So
I wanted to be able
to interact with the ones that I can. And so it’s, like I said, the retailer is now last place and my subscription and my serial is first.
and
It’s a overwhelming and amazing. And now I can’t go back to who I used to be. I can’t go back and not get the instant feedback, not talk to my readers as I’m
it, not get
their not have
them vote on what’s going to happen. I want [00:54:00] all of that now
And I have
to have it now.
Michael Evans: genius. The voting is genius. And there’s a few authors who have done this.
And it’s really, like
why it
works, because people might be, like, listening to something, and it’s the common thing, like,
people
when I do that, when I vote like,
why would
people do it? And then, you’re the living proof that people do it, so it’s okay, maybe I will listen now, which is fair in terms of the why, you have to think about what do readers really want?
Like, why do people read?
say entertainment, but what
does that mean? Like we want to be entertained. There’s
something happening. Entertainment
is not a feeling. You
You don’t ever say, I’m like I’m in
a state of
entertainment write now. There’s something
else happening.
And ultimately, are fleeting.
So
don’t actually ever want to serve a
a feeling either. So they’re not coming there for one feeling either, they’re feeling a lot of things.
So what are they actually doing? They’re solving [00:55:00] core
core
human needs by reading
stories.
That’s why
we it. really
makes no other sense to do it otherwise because, let’s be real here
from a survival
standpoint, sitting
and
a story and listening to something, like when we could be out foraging for food, we’re in a different world now, but think about
evolution.
There was no reason. The reason
we do it is because,
Yeah, stories help us learn, but that’s not the most obvious
effect.
It’s status, belonging,
Identity. Those three things. We see ourselves in stories. We see the people in the world around us, and it helps us become better.
that. That’s huge.
We feel like we’re a part of something.
We used not tell stories
through books. We used to tell stories with people orally. That sounds really weird given the romance context, but again, these were
oral stories and before there was even written language, they were told among small groups of people to help us coordinate and live together.
And that’s where stories
from, which seems [00:56:00] like, why am I talking But there’s something actually
quite, deep rooted
in our
psychology as humans, about
actually
feeling like we’re a part of something.
something.
And when you
get that.
get to be a part of that story, in a small way, because the leader, this is also true, this is why Irene has the motto, Storytellers of the World.
When you go back and actually look at hunter gatherer tribes, and the ones that still exist today, it’s the most powerful people in those tribes stories. Most powerful. Even
There’s the king of tribe, or the, whatever
the tribe leader is, but the cultural center, the real person that we turn to is the story, which is amazing.
And why would
say the
word
storyteller of the world comes from Plato’s Republic. He banned the poets of the kingdom. He
storytellers
rule the world. So I guess if we, take him of the kingdom, then it’ll
be better, but then you realize that anyone to
to actually
rule needs to be a storyteller.
So that
Ah, didn’t work. I
guess they just wrote [00:57:00] it. But when we think about it in this context,
because it sounds
crazy, but if we really think about it, what you’re doing is allowing your readers to take part in the world that you are creating. You are leading it. You are the storyteller.
But is that powerful
one that gets to be involved.
When you give them a voice, when you say,
this space is for us. It’s just amazing what you’ve
done and how you’ve approached it and the power that you’re trying to give them to
making it’s comfortable with you
because okay, so you don’t literally rule the world, in the sense of no one
actually rules the world don’t know who does, maybe you believe in a God or whatever, like whatever you believe in that, in a literal sense, whatever the big thing is, whether it’s science or the rules of the day or God, like we’re not going to get into that discussion here,
but in that moment, you are the one who’s leaving.
yeah, I just think it’s
amazing you’ve done it in terms
how you want
your subscription with that.
community, I’m already sense like you
did this in
conversation with them in the sense that you didn’t want to make it feel like now I’m imposing something like you were hinting at it,
but then you
actually launched it. What did you do
market [00:58:00] it? Like you you got 10
paid members the first week. What did that roll out?
Look like it’s okay. If it was simple it might be pretty simple, but I want to know what did you concretely do to get those 10
Verika Sloane: papers? Okay. So I was also going to add that I tried to. Immerse the reader as much as I can. And these are two things that you can do for free, which I thought was great.
Just also fed into the mania of how much they love the story because it feels more real to them
them. Because,
think about when you how many times you hear the book was better. Why was the book better? Because you were immersed in that. You watch the movie, you’re being put a
is being
put on for you, but when you’re reading the book, you are.
You are the character or you are write beside them. You smell the smoke in the air you, you feel the rush of love, whatever it is, that’s why the book is better and so that’s what I’m trying to do on this [00:59:00] story too. For instance, I started a Pinterest board. All the aesthetics so that
can
get a visual of what I see.
This is how I think Gage looks like. This is what I think the university looks like. And so I said, you can join it and you can add your pin. You tell me what you think they look like
what the villa they stayed at looked like. And that added to
a
of it too,
because that makes
feel
more real, write?
So I can’t. I don’t have a
company make
a movie out of it, but we can look at nice photos on Pinterest. And then, there’s also a nightclub in the, that features in the story.
And I made a fake
Instagram page for the nightclub, like it’s promoting.
I don’t know how to describe it, but it’s okay, this weekend, DJ
Nova.
this is outfit.
I made this up. I make this up on Canva and and
put on there this is a fake nightclub on a fake story. Do not, this is not a real, and they
Michael Evans: Don’t actually go! her know that!
Verika Sloane: don’t look for this place. It doesn’t exist. It’s not in New York, [01:00:00] but and it’s not like I
I
A ton of, followers on those, but they make,
it makes it more real to them. So as you
make
it more real, which a lot of people do is.
with artwork, write?
artwork, merchandise, things that they can touch, things that they can see
than just reading.
Radish is on an app.
It’s on a phone. And so it’s it’s not a
yet. It is now
the 1st book, but it’s the more you can go outside of that. I think that the more people get even more emotionally attached to it, and I think that contributed a lot to that as well. So I’m sorry, what was your question? Because I know I just went off.
Michael Evans: Yeah, no, okay. You didn’t answer it, but that’s
awesome. I
I No, I
Verika Sloane: I wanted to add that though, that I’m like, I, a couple other platforms that are free,
cost me nothing. Also added to that, it
makes it feel real to
them. So real.
And
Michael Evans: No, this is so important. [01:01:00] I I’m absolutely
loving this conversation mainly because
It’s this definitely one of my favorite podcasts. I do this selfishly. I just like talking to people.
My
that other people
Verika Sloane: it’s my day to thank you,
Michael Evans: I have
enjoy this so much because you just get it.
it. You get it. Like, when you were talking probably someone on Facelive, we were talking about about the immersion. It’s about, like, Why is book better? Because I was having this conversation today
a lot of people
Because I
Interfaced with
obviously technology
the author world and in many of my conversations, some people will say, especially in
the space, are at like very like a weird stepchild. And it’s well, why are
we doing books? It’s I mean Can they also be like, movie,
platform and a game platform
all these other things? Wouldn’t those be like, bigger market is
unquote, wouldn’t that be better? my answer Like high
noble is
I love They’re the thing ever. It’s like it’s true I
really love books,
but I think
It’s something else that
like that I really come back is that
the people
The people who read aren’t [01:02:00] watch They’re obviously nobody games and i’m not building for them for a person at the day That’s not who we’re creating for.
And so why are there people when, objectively movies are more immersive?
And if we’re talking about immersion, movies are more immersive than books.
from a textile Experiential standpoint. more to grab
grab onto. Video games are the most immersive. They’re really giving someone control
your world.
When you actually look at all
these other industries, what’s really interesting, is
people don’t realize how
big the video game industry is.
Video games are now 45x bigger. Yeah. In terms of their total net.
revenue
And books are tiny compared this.
But not in a bad way,
This isn’t a book that’s really small at all. It’s huge and way big enough for all of us. So no, no worries there.
But again, like, why
do people read it all is a valid question.
Why do people read it all? And
nonfiction, let’s
just take off. Because, yeah, maybe it’s more easy to access something through audio or your
text learner.
link. Why do people read nonfiction?
fiction,
When they could literally do[01:03:00]
anything else? Which is like a weird question to ask. Because we’re just all naturally this but there’s people
all the time who say
young
people aren’t reading. Before BookTok, it was like, young people don’t read. It’s yes, BookTok showed us that. But
But like for real though, like this is the constant thing.
We
feel as authors. And you get the nail on that. You get on that. It’s about the
the relationship we have to characters
but More specifically, I like obsessed over last I was like
I
I just went through this phase where Like actually I don’t have a
concrete
First
principled reason for why reading still exists. People like to do it as a good,
As with everything in this country, I’m like that answer like
we have to go deeper. So
I
I went deeper, and I found something. About the brain.
and i’m not going to get into the the neuroscience Because
of it because I love this shit,
But
The that I found i’m is that when you actually have a prose
fiction that’s coming from a place where like it’s
in your inside the mind the character
when
you let someone step
inside that mind, you are able to build empathy
You
at a [01:04:00] level that just
not
possible in any other medium for that matter.
And
That is so important and so crucial and it’s never going to go anywhere. And it’s why one, I should say, I’m very passionate about just keeping focused on books because there’s a whole world there. And then the second thing is when you actually
think socially
like who’s more in humanity, like who’s more interested in actually, character driven books and also Who is more empathetic and
general? And I’m not, I’m a guy, so I say this. Usually Usually women. Guys aren’t always the most empathetic. Then you look at
the book market. 80 percent of books are bought and sold, or are bought and read by women. And
it’s way more
gender than any other medium.
Video games actually used to be really male dominated, now are almost even to females.
You might think, why was it so male dominated, now why is it more equal? I have
thesis there too, and it goes back to like, all these same
psychological things. Okay, [01:05:00] men actually have more interesting gamification.
That’s
why Peloton, which, Peloton, not many dudes
ride Peloton.
love Peloton, as like a company, as a brand.
But No, that’s not their target customer. The target customer is females.
Verika Sloane: Everyone who buys Peloton. Advertisements show men.
I guess we get to both.
Michael Evans: that is their consumer. you look at you can that the they’re targeting
females. That’s who they want.
find their products.
Why? It’s because Peloton’s community based,
exercising,
Getting
that attachment
to the instructor,
getting that attachment attachment to the class.
Verika Sloane: and who
needs community, yeah. Dude’s
Michael Evans: like, I don’t want that.
Instead, they want gamification. One of my professors started, his son started basically gamifying rowing companies. All their cu all their customers are men
And it exploded because
we’re a game
that. obviously are the definition of gamifying. Now I’m not saying women don’t like that. It’s just more tendencies, write? It’s not like men don’t like being relationship. It’s just tendencies. So why do you certain markets, by certain and
When we go to video games, they’ve now become a lot more [01:06:00] candid. In terms of
live streaming, interactions, now, now it’s just who’s dominating the community yes it’s still male dominated,
mainly because, yeah, there’s all these gendered, and the world is messed up a lot of times. And in terms of power structures and all
So I won’t even dive into that.
but now in terms of overall,
who’s playing games, it’s even.
Down
you go to books, this is community is so in books,
Because we’ve identified now,
now, that women enjoy
community, write?
They are
the
majority
book
market. So for everyone reading,
listening to, you might be a man who’s creating
Great. I thought my readers
would be dudes because I was a dude.
Not true. Most of my readers are male. Most guys, most readers
There are genres that
are male domic. Bear with you. There’s only so many that are
male dominated. So when we’re talking about like the
market who we’re creating for, what they’re interested in a lot of reasons into what you’re talking, which why I’m nerding out now, because this is what think all
day about, because Yeah,
So you are
just doing this incredibly well
Verika,
and you get it like in the immersion [01:07:00] factor to you’re going to,
you’re not trying to go
and spin off into Hollywood to create a more experience because
you understand that your readers there for that core immersive experience, which is story.
But you can create ancillary things around it, such as merch, such as this, such as that, that can make readers feel part
of what you’re doing.
that can boost people
that
to 50.
Bang, I got a shirt. I identify with that
a little more. I can give people the degree of belonging. Oh, we can go to a nightclub, write?
it
sounds silly, but these are all the little things that
can benefit your consciousness. So that’s why you’re doing what you’re doing is wonderful.
Because I
just know I know many people to these things and they go Oh, let me go off do them.
them. And it’s yeah,
but if you don’t understand why
it’s working,
you’re not going to how to do it.
Because if you just go and look at what Verika
Beric is
doing and then try and copy it, it
never works. That works. So how can you make it
work for you. You have to understand why, which you already do and are doing, and you’re not seeing that, which is just.
Verika Sloane: Find out what they love about you. And you, there are readers out there, there are billions of people on the planet. And I thought no one is going to want to pay me [01:08:00] monthly.
I am nobody. And I was wrong. And if you think that, you are also wrong. There is someone, or a reader for every writer, I swear.
And,
Men like to watch and women like to read. Because women want to feel like they are her. I get messages all the time. I’m living vicariously through Leighton is her name.
And it’s that’s why, because they’re going through what she’s going through. And it’s amazing
at times, and dramatic at others, and
it’s the escape. I read that, I
think there’s seven figure fiction is the one about the butter just add the butter, especially in romance is important.
What do we all fantasize about? Billionaire romance is not going to go anywhere because everybody fantasizes about
rich, or being
with someone who is who can
care of
you. You don’t have to work anymore. And the fantasies are everywhere and you just need to. Work them into your plot
you’re writing romance
or not.
There is something that
Will
resonate[01:09:00]
With
a reader You just have to find out
it is that you
are also excited to write about not just okay They like Mafia, but I don’t care about that, but I’ll write it No, they’ll notice and then you’ll burn out and then you won’t want to write about it anymore So it’s It’s definitely,
Michael Evans: 000 words in,
write?
That doesn’t just come out, 500, 000 words has come from
Verika Sloane: Yeah, so
Michael Evans: you want to
keep it going,
Verika Sloane: too.
it took
me a year to write one novel.
The one behind me actually and then
I’ve written basically five in a year and a
You mean, that’s
because I’m getting that motivation from, I’m not, I don’t just have to motivate myself.
Being a writer is so solitary.
and,
You have good days and bad days and some days you’re on fire and some days you’re like, why bother imposter syndrome? Who am I? Why am I writing? And so it’s when you have other people are like, are you out of your mind or you’re not going to drop an episode?
I
pulled over the side of the road to read it. I’m like whoa, okay. Then I’ll [01:10:00] get write back on that. So
it is.
they’re like so when something happens at the nightclub, Then
I make a little promo. It says nightclub is closed and then they’re like, oh my gosh. And what happened in the episode is the reason why it’s closed and they’re putting it on their Instagram.
I’m trying to hit all the feels and make it feel as real to them as I can. And
It’s
not,
it’s
the escape, but it’s also the fantasy, and it’s also your passion will show if you are also excited about your story as well.
And like I said, you don’t have
to interact and talk about, like, where you live or how many pets you have, anything like that.
It can just be about. This episode put me through the wringer and oh my gosh, you guys aren’t even prepared for the next one or you know I see stuff like that all the time or I’ll be like, Gage is laughing at
you guys and I all your comments and Gage is the character
Even though I’m the one writing Gage, they still think that, he’s laughing in my head
It just [01:11:00] again,
makes it feel just as many emotions as you can evoke the better
And it, good
or bad,
They say
they only want happy times, but they want the angst and the drama too, because that makes the happier times even better.
So
definitely
listen to your fans and that’s why I’m like, I’m going to concentrate on the ones I have and not the ones that I could have on Amazon. I’m going to concentrate the ones that are paying me monthly for these bonus scenes. I wrote two bonus scenes for free, and I put them on to entice them.
And that’s how I got a lot of them to commit to a subscription, too, is by
giving them a taste of
what they would get, and then making it as available as I could, and then saying, Okay, but if you want more, and if you want to vote on what happens on the next one, then you should subscribe. I made a 6 tier just for the bonus scenes.
And that’s all it [01:12:00] includes because some of them are just here for that. And that is fine with me. And so I did start out at 10, but then I made it a 6 tier for the bonus scenes strictly. Why
Michael Evans: was it? Because yeah, because the 10 tier has bonus scenes, but the work in
Yeah.
Let me just do one.
Verika Sloane: yeah. Just if you’re just there to read from the professor’s point of view, and you don’t care about backlist or your name in the acknowledgements or free ebook or anything, then.
Yeah, that’s a cheer for you.
And yeah, I’ve got
quite a few on that one, it’s
it’s been wild.
And it’s
been very fast
the past few months. And
I am I’m enjoying it. I am not taking it for granted because it could just all just float away. And I. I don’t know if it will or won’t, or
this is as good as it
gets, that’s fine too.
But
I made friends
my fans, and that’s just gold.
Michael Evans: don’t think it’ll float away. interesting,
Because a few things,
Verika Sloane: one That’s that
imposter syndrome for me talking, just,
Michael Evans: it’s just
No. I [01:13:00] you.
It’s a common I would be thinking the same thing, to be honest,
but taking an
outside perspective, because I’m talking to you, and I love you at the moment I feel like yes,
it is possible that potentially the surge in
readership that you’re seeing could drop, the surge, the growth
can slow.
the growth may even up,
But in the future, one, if
if you keep, not, here’s the thing,
you now have relations Your existing
they’re not going to go away.
Especially the people who are on your now those people are paying you up, and a lot of them are going to stay. Some will drop over
time, but a lot of them will stay.
you get
to continue focusing on them,
serving them,
and now keep getting them paid.
But eventually,
there’s going to be that hits with a wider group
of readers too. How much wider? I don’t
know.
But it will. And
that’s why,
It’ll
keep happening. And I hope the current. wrong. going. That’d be But undoubtedly there will be dips. There will be
higher highs, and there will be more dips.
And that’s just how
how it is. Yeah. But [01:14:00] you
you have that
consistent base now, your super fans.
I don’t
think your super fans just abandon you. No. They leave
you. Especially when you’re them. creating that they love. If you would
hurt their trust and their
trust
you could You can lose anyone, of course, but
you’re not to that,
because you’re knowing what want, listening to
them, writing for them so I’m
I’m not worried
for you with that.
But it’s definitely a common
thing, but To, because I have enjoyed this way too much, and you have to get out the rest of your day. .
Verika Sloane: Let’s go for, oh
like, oh
my God, I took up so much of your time, but this is so much
Michael Evans: fun.
No you should get on the rest of your day. I’m fine. I’ve
I’ve enjoyed this.
I’m sorry because I usually record these because it’s not this long, but this is great. I was listening and joining, but I want to just do two rapid fire questions
after launching a description, what is something that you either wish you did differently? Or spend my chicken fathers
The last question
will just be where we can find it
Verika Sloane: Okay. What would I do differently about my subscription
about
launching [01:15:00] it or maintaining it or.
Michael Evans: Yeah.
Verika Sloane: any
you’re like, yeah,
Michael Evans: to mind
Verika Sloane: I, you still, I followed the advice and so I really didn’t run into anything where I was like, oh, I messed up there. I I kept the advice of only what I could
Commit to,
Overpromise me. Under a promise over deliver. I always mess it up. So I kept to that.
Things that I haven’t really changed on my subscription. I don’t want to say I knocked it out of the
or anything
like that. I certainly didn’t. I put my works in progress on there to see if they were interested in my other stuff. They’re not.
Good to know.
A little disappointed, but that’s okay.
That just means that I’m doing something write with the other story. And for the subscription, I would just definitely start very small and even just offer just like 1 tier. I offered 4, but that’s because 1 of them is outrageous. So when is 1, 125 dollars a month. And that’s for me to customize a [01:16:00] story for you and.
But don’t tell your readers what they can and cannot afford. That’s why I started with the 10 a month, because I just, I remember hearing that bias over and over. And so if you value your work at 3, 5 and up, put it, start there. I started at 10. And most of the comparable authors I was looking at were starting at five.
And it was like, oh, this is ambitious. Who do I think I am starting at 10? And it was like it’s 3 per, works in progress. Put it out there. I waited until I had that security of having bands ready to go that I think that we’re going to be interested. You do not need to do that.
It’s just
again, with the experiment, put out
your newsletter, the
about newsletter
people, they’re used to getting your blocks, your books in all in one sitting. And so they’re not
to be as hot as an audience is like
The radish readers who are getting it. I dropped to them every week.
And so [01:17:00] you need to
start
putting them in your newsletter, maybe every week, and just making your own cereal out of that. And I wish I could have done that and warmed them up to it. I really just
it on my like, I have a subscription
now, you should join. But I don’t think anyone did.
I think maybe one out of the 3, 000 subscribers I have maybe joined. And I I suggest just Having this one thing that you’re going to offer, putting it on your subscription, and then looking for that audience, find a platform where they are, you know where they are, if they’re in romance you know where they are, if it’s lit,
RPG, and
you can find them,
and then just
Make sure that they know that you’re real, that you’re not just this story on an app, and you don’t need to get personal, and you don’t need to interact in the way I do, but, yeah, The more real you can make this story and the fact that you’re a real person that’s writing it.
You’re like a celebrity to them, like I
said in
the beginning,
And they want to
[01:18:00] to you, they really do.
And
way more than you think. Like I said, it was ghost town. Up until I offered those polls. And then they were like, Oh, so I guess she wants to interact. Cool. So do I.
And now I’ve got
many fans that want to interact every single episode.
And even though it takes a lot of time, I respond to all of them because it’s still not out of control. Like Amelia has thousands. And so
responding to thousands of comments
is not viable, but
for me, it is. And it
just helps feed the fandom even more. The end.
For
your subscription, start small,
very
small, only what you can like, I can do that and more, but I’m just going to say I’m going to do that, because you don’t want to overwhelm yourself.
And then,
once you have a subscription,
another
bonus I thought was I have a built in street team.
I
didn’t ask anybody beta read and ask anybody to review, but now they want to, even though that most of [01:19:00] them get the book
for
free, once it releases, they still want to buy it on Amazon. I remember Amelia saying that.
And I was like, that’s silly. If I’m already paying 10 a month, why would I also pay for the ebook? That’s how much they love me. As an author now,
happy I make them, and they want to
support me. And it’s
that’s great.
Really humbling. Start small, be brave, and listen to your readers. And
you can also
say, no that’s not what he wants to do. I say it in the context
of the characters. Oh, he should have done this. And
I’ll be like, Oh, he says that’s a deaf and that’s a hard no.
And that, so
instead of me saying, I’m not
to write that, or
I’m not going to go with that idea of Oh, the character says,
Nice try, but next time. And then they think it’s funny and then they’re like, oh my gosh, he’s so ridiculous.
Make
it as real as you can. And I don’t, I guess for the story. That’s my advice for that, and for the subscription, find out what they want. I [01:20:00] guess it’s all about finding out what they want, and then giving it to them. And you might think that they want these big, gloriously decadent book boxes, and
and
maybe a couple of them do, but unless you’re into that, don’t offer it.
Just give them what they want. And it’s usually just more of the characters, just more of them is usually what they want. And so if you’re into it, they’re into it. And then if you find out exactly what they want, go with it for at least a little while until, find out, have another idea,
Move
into something else.
So I’m all about the fan service,
Michael Evans: no it’s amazing. And I totally agree with first starting with what are you passionate about? What do you to write about? What story gets you going? And then from there,
with
out, okay, what do I
They
throw in the butter, the fantasy.
Yeah,
You always need that.
Especially when they really need
role [01:21:00] that you want your to get off and
and not want to end, that’s gotta
be something that
them, they’re in they’re like, I
They never,
Verika Sloane: It’s an amazing feeling. You’ve created a world that people don’t want to leave. Just like any other long running show, Grey’s Anatomy, and the ones that people supernatural now, people go to the convention because that show is over, but it’s still real if they can go to the convention.
And this is once you set up a world that people don’t want to leave, you should stay in it as long as you can. And you look at me,
Michael Evans: coming from a Moonstone, that’s that like if you’re a like Barrett has
the best advice because that’s exactly what up a world,
You make
everything about the world, never leave it. That’s why you’re a I’m glad you got a Moonstone role.
the
Verika Sloane: You love. That’s why everyone’s so
fake university.
it.
I feel [01:22:00] that. I feel
into the merch era. I am
Michael Evans: at the merch era. I that, I think I like when authentic like that. When authors are like, what I make about? I’m you
should not make merch. And that sounds harsh but it’s like,
unless you, something
feels really authentic and like you it aligns with what your story is about. Maybe your reader is
asking for it. That’s how, okay, I should make me buy. But if no one’s asked you yet, if you’re still puzzling, like just keep writing. And that I’m that a deni, that’s what’s
your
best. Time is spent doing anyways it’ll come with
time and then it’ll be that you’re excited about and that’s That’s just like a way to make money.
Although
yeah, like for certain you can, I don’t be saying that’s Oh, wow, like
I want to wear this now too and like my readers can seem like they do like why do I just create it?
Which seems like too simple,
but like
I
don’t know if that’s the approach.
Verika Sloane: It’s so hard. Just I think I heard in a podcast earlier it’s so hard to think as
a, [01:23:00] just a reader, because you’re such a writer, right? Some writers I don’t want to, I would never want to, like you said, participate in a poll.
but
that’s you. And it’s probably you as a writer in it,
there
could be other readers that feel that way, but there are, you need to think like the reader. I
If my favorite author, or actor, or any
creator, musician, was
Hey,
Oh, thank you so much, Verika, was awesome. In fact, my
line in this song, in this movie, in this, is this, I would freak
out. So you have to think of it like a fan. And even though I’m like, I feel like I am nobody in it and I’m not
celebrity
by any means, but to like my fan in Greece, she’s, I can’t do any wrong.
She wants all the books, all the things, all the bonuses, all the merch.
merch.
I have been a ridiculously super fan and she makes my day every day. And it’s
amazing and I can’t emphasize how much it is to cultivate that little [01:24:00] community, no matter how small it is. Two people, 200.
In fact, I can’t, I get
overwhelmed thinking about if I ever got to 2000, right?
It’s crazy. But
Authors sending out these
boxes, making millions. That’s their
world and
their journey. And you get the, to that,
Just don’t
that in the beginning.
There’s so many other things to think about.
Michael Evans: I
you’re not going to think about that. But also, I will say
if you do get a 2, 000, is to make it much, exactly.
Verika Sloane: It’s a good experience
Michael Evans: for your fans.
your fans. There’s always a way to
to keep everything going and make it even better.
And, yeah, no this is. Do you have your
awesome, Erika.
I love this. And
Verika Sloane: Oh, thank you for having me
on here. Those it’s awesome. I love
talking about my, zero to a hundred story
just with Emilia’s
advice and subscription for authors and ream. I, yeah, that’s where my subscription is. Can find me on on Reem,[01:25:00]
reamstories.
com slash be Sloan. Website Verikastlone. com.
I’m on like Facebook
and stuff, but I’m. Not like super, super active
there. My fans
are on Radish and they’re on Ream and that’s, and like the advice of
find that
and master that one. I have mastered Radish now. So that’s great. I don’t want to be on Wattpad or World Road.
I don’t have that
time,
I have a full time job
wait. So this is my
Michael Evans: there’s a lot going on.
you
with You are,
here. You’re amazing, Marika. I am so excited to see
what
2024 has in store for you.
And it means
a lot for you taking this time out to stay with us because I know people really like this episode and this film is special.
and
Because you’re
very special.
That’s a
Verika Sloane: No, thank you very much. It’s
blast.
I hope somebody takes something away from all my
rambling.
I really do.
I want someone to
message me like, I listened to that and I did this thing, this one little [01:26:00] thing that you said and it made a difference. Yeah.
that would make
my day. I want more.
I wanna spread
Michael Evans: Verika’s advice. Tell Verika,
That you
did it everyone will be happy.
Verika Sloane: Please don’t be shy. I want to know. And then I
want to gush about it with you because, now I love interacting with whoever about, subscriptions.
I have told other authors
about it and about Ream
I really excited to see where Ream to be this time next year.
Because
Michael Evans: It’s going to be a very fun year for us. Liz?
very good.
Thanks, Kim.
this amazing Thank you.
And that is it for this podcast. I hope you enjoyed a huge. Thank you to Erica for coming on. She’s like such an inspiration, seriously, such an inspiration. And like I said, in the beginning, if y’all want to join the 1 million reads serial lab, you can find it in the description. It’s a really awesome, awesome course where you actually get to work directly with Amelia, get some office hours with her, get feedback from the team on how to actually write and grow [01:27:00] your cereal.
So I hope you enjoy that. And I hope you’ve been enjoying this podcast. We have some awesome reviews coming up, some amazing episodes, so I hope to see you all soon. In the meantime, have an amazing rest of your day, and don’t forget, storytellers rule the world.
I’ll be back at work, so let me through. I know you need it all, so let me through.
ABOUT SUBSCRIPTIONS FOR AUTHORS
We are the premier community to learn about making money from subscriptions as an author. We have this weekly podcast, our Facebook Group with hundreds of fellow authors, and a newsletter where we are committed to having the best free educational resources and networking for authors looking to break into this exciting new publishing model. We are led by Emilia Rose (six figures a year on subscriptions and steamy romance author) and Michael Evans (sci-fi thriller author and newbie to subscriptions, but excited to learn). Subscriptions are hard for authors, we hope this community makes it easier for you. But we also know how tough it can be using technology platforms that always feel like they are working against you. That’s why we are building Ream… oh… and about that…
ABOUT REAM
Ream is a platform that helps authors make money with subscriptions. Think of us like Patreon built for fiction authors by fiction authors. And our mission is simple: to help more authors pursue their storytelling dreams full-time (and for those full-time to make even more money and have more control while doing so). The platform allows writers to build communities around their stories and charge a monthly fee that rewards their super fans with connection and access. You can join Ream and start making money from subscriptions on the only platform built by authors for authors: https://reamstories.com